NEWS: McBlind Obedience?

McOwned

This is not the first case against McD's of this nature. It will most likely be settled out of court

Wow. In a sense, that poor girlproves to me that my life-long reluctance to Go with the Flow has been right. She should be my guardian Saint, Saint Louise of the Vanished Will. She will always remind me that the price I paid for being myself is not, has never been and never will be too high.

She is still young. Maybe, with lots of therapy, she can learn how to stand up for herself. I hope so, because otherwise she is in for a world of abuse, with her local reputation of being weak-willed.

Any satanist worth his salt will be laughing his ass off reading that story, BTW.

At one point in this nation's history (the USA), such sentiments weren't considered ironic...they were taken seriously. just goes to show how far down the shithole the USA has gone.

I also find it strangely curious how the person with the most sense to stop that travesty was a ninth grade dropout. He didn't go through the whole gamut of indoctrination our government schools force down the throats of impressionable kids. He was a lucky one. These days, indoctrination camps, er, govenment schools...no..."public schools" are less about reading, writing and math and more concerened over "drug abuse prevention", narking on fellow students, sex education, politically correct doctrines and a while range of social engineering.

They indoctrinate to make us "good little, passive citizens" and by and large, do one hell of a successful job at ripping away our individuality and free through processes.

Fuck public "education"

The shirt was always ironic, whether anyone realized it or not. It's an authority telling you to question itself It doesn't make the point less valid, but it still makes me laugh a little. Also, the fact that it is ironic has no bearing on how far down the shithole the USA has supposedly gone. I have no idea where statements like these come from. Well, no idea where well intentioned statements like these come from, I know what drives them when crummy people put them out there, but I don't include you in that group

Very good point. It's a lose-lose situation society puts everybody in. You're bound to lose one way or the other, the question then becomes how to cut ones losses.

Poor girl. I really hate those idiots in the restaurant who were supposed to be older and wiser than her. I especially hate that sick brain-hacker who thought this up. Funny how it takes somebody who desperately wants to be a cop to pull of a thing like that so convincely. A standard prankster would hopefully not be so convincing... I hope.

Ultimately, however, it still comes down to a failing by the parents. When I was being raised (in a relatively low crime area and time I might add) I was clearly taught “If he/she doesn’t have a badge, have nothing to do with him/her.”

Now, of course, a badge can be forged. But I was also taught that my parents had my back if I ever thought I was in the right and someone in authority was not. I questioned authority many times before even reaching my teens...and frequently, when all of us got together (me, my parents and the “authority”) I was found to be in the wrong...but I was never reprimanded for standing my ground and requiring a meeting.

I guess my point is, the assumed statement “...why didn't you just do what they said if you're innocent??" is exactly what a lot of parents would have said. Which is their failing. The correct response is, “If you’re innocent...do whatever you think is right (including getting arrested or fired) and we’ll sort it out with you and them afterwards.”

I was also taught that no authority figure (cop, teacher, manager, principle) has the right to do “specific things” about which I was informed. I think it is sad as shit that we live in a society where kids have to be introduced to possible existence of lecherous, perverse, adult motherfuckers while still a child...but alas, it is so.

Personally, it comes down to parental laziness...as do most of the evils of this type. Just handing your kid over to the school/manager/juvi center/ETC. and hoping they don’t fuck you up because it is sure a hell of a lot easier than doing the job yourself.

P.S. It is sad when anyone put in charge of employees is this fucking stupid...but, then again, what do you expect when the average age of a McDonalds employee is 17...and the average age of a McD’s manager is 20. Fuck...both of them are still wet behind the ears when it comes to dealing with authority figures like cops.

The best advice I ever got (from a cop) was if a situation with a cop ever feels squirrelly...tell the cop (politely) you will not open the door (step out of the car, whatever) until after calling 911 and verifying the cop. The officer WILL have called in before stopping you (or knocking on the door) so 911 can verify whether they have an officer doing a stop in that area (and usually verify if he is at your door/car.)

Fucking maroons.

And lets not forget that in this society there are penalties to questioning athority. Like I know peaple who say to a cop "I'm gonna report you" and they get arrested. I also think with this girl things snow balled. Like first she's naked in front of girls, then she's naked in front of a guy but she has a apron, Then when we starts to ressist he gives her a spanking.
I think the spanking humiliated her and made her feel worthless which forced her to go along more. It's really not her fault.

Granted...

I have to disagree with that defense however. Most of the people “just obeying orders” were either using it as an excuse during war crime trials (questionable sincereity), were military (where questioning authority during wartime can get you shot...legally according to the Geneva convention) or were under threat from the SS (which can get you shot with disregard to the Geneva convention).

Totally agreed to in regards to the “asshat” managers who should have known better...but they were probably enjoying themselves with a sense of credible deniability (“Duh...I thought he was a cop...I hated the blow job...duhhh.”)

However, again, it comes down to two things...really one thing. The parents should have taught her...
A) No badge, no confirmation...no cooperation is legal and appropriate. And...
B) The second you want me naked, I’m outta here. Come fuckin’ arrest me. I could use the lawsuit.

And, maybe the most important of which...being the second you want me to give you a blow job, for any reason, your get a foot in the groin and I start tossing chairs into heads.

Honestly, and this is going to be REALLY POLITICALLY INCORRECT...but, you know, most people (male or female) when forced to give a blowjob (or any sexual act) will resist up to the point of a death threat. One must wonder...just a tad...if maybe SHE wasn’t into it a little too, using the “cop made me” scenario as her own form of credible deniability, and only made a stink when the guilt kicked in (or when other people found out.)

EDIT:
Or she had been sexually abused in her youth.
End EDIT:

Yeah...but that’s the entire point of this country (and the constitution.) The cop might be able to arrest you...but he cannot actually “charge” you with questioning his actions or legal authority. You can only be charged with “resisting arrest” which means fighting or fleeing.

Asking for the cop’s ID, asking for the reason for being stopped or questioned, even questioning the validity of the officers actions or motives are not chargeable offenses. You can be detained...but being detained doesn’t mean shit for you. However being detained without cause can mean a world of hurt for the cop.

Then the cop gets discharged and you have the whole thing of a nice tidy lawsuit for false arrest or, if he arrested you for refusing to blow him...I nice tidy gargantuan scandal (worth at least a good book title and some residuals.)

If the girl in question did not know her rights and didn’t know that “getting arrested” doesn’t mean shit...especially if the situation is iffy (at best) it is the fault of the parents for failing to teach the girl how to protect herself from such things.

And if she didn't realize that even a present cop...not to mention a dickhead McD's manager...can't give you a spanking for any reason...

Well..again, useless parenting.

[Edited on Nov 17, 2005 by BurningKrome]

If you say so.

it would have saved alot of people embarrasment and trouble if someone would have asked some common sense questions, would it have not?

Well, to be fair to McDonalds (and by no means am I excusing any of their conduct at all save this) that's sort of the point of a deposition: to judge the strength of the opposing party's testimony and see if there are any holes that they can exploit. Their lawyer (while unquestionably being a douchebag) is essentially doing his/her job.

That said: He/she certainly could have done his/her job with a much MUCH higher degree of tact and respect.

When I worked in the food industry, whenever a cop showed up looking for someone we smuggled them out the back while someone else talked to the police.

And if they called, we would tell them the person wasn't there and warn the person in question.

[Edited on Nov 17, 2005 by emperorreagan]

I was watching Montel one time and a woman got a phone call from a man who claimed he was a doctor, and convinced her to perform an at home "test" on herself by cutting off one of her nipples with a shaving razorblade.

That said, I completely feel for the girl. I think for a lot of teenagers, "getting in trouble" is a big concern. (a lot of us on SG probably didn't fall into that category) Also, she probably didn't know much about the law and what her supervisor could and couldn't do to her. Working in retail, I learned that only a POLICE OFFICER can search a detained person, otherwise LAWSUITS ensue!!! However, I doubt she knew. So, that explains her allowing the strip search.
The oral sex is something different....When she didn't do what the guy said, she would get spanked. And the guy was bigger than her too. I would be afraid for my life! Especially when he had her sit on his lap and kiss him...I would have suspected he was going to rape me. She could have attacked him and screamed, possibly leading the caller to tell the guy to stop her using force, or comply.

It's very easy to say, "I would have done this and this..." but you really have no idea what you would have done. Everything changes when it's actually happening to you.

Sorry, I'm all over the place!

[Edited on Nov 17, 2005 7:01PM]

Dude, I would blow your dick for simple threats that would hurt me like hell. For example, if you treatened to tell my girlfriend I'd been cheating or something like that. Your point is null.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, people also fail to resist due to confusion, a feeling that they have somehow brought it on themselves and now can't back out, or any other range of psychological reasons inflicted on them by the abuser.

I notice in your edit you acknowledge that people can be 'genuinely' sexually abused in their youth. I wonder what makes you think that children can be raped/whatever and adults can't?

It is your attitude that is shared by all those in the police and legal system who ensure that such a tiny proportion of rape cases even come to court, and those women who do get that far are humiliated, degraded and generally laughed out of court because everyone knows they 'must' have wanted it really.

That wasn’t the point at all. The point of that statement was that people who have been sexually abused in their youth tend to be more submissive to continued sexual assault in their adulthood. It is part of the psychological damage impacted.

I am not sure comparing this to a violent rape is quote reasonable. This occurred in the office of a McDonalds where one good scream would have brought DOZENS of people running, including customers.

And, just for the record people...it was just a speculative comment in an attempt to bring a devil’s advocate into the argument. And, regardless of anything said, the Managers are completely in the wrong and total dickheads for initiating it...regardless of her stance in the matter.

The point was that, as opposed to a violent rape, the circumstances should have allowed for an easy escape by any number of methods. So either she was terrorized due to being emotionally incapable of escape (by bad parenting, previous abuse, or an undue terror of authority figures) or (possibly...just for the sake of argument) there might have been something fishy about it.

Regardless, it STILL comes down to the Parents fault...because by her age, if she did not know her rights and have the esteem to defend herself...her parenting SUCKED.

Sincerely,
Your favorite asshole.

P.S. Just as an informative comment, having worked with rape crisis centers...women should NEVER submit to a rape. We now know that, statistically, women who submit are actually more likely to get injured or killed than women who fight. Also, in interviews with rape survivors who submitted and are trying to deal with the lifelong trauma it creates...many said they would have preferred the risk of injury or death to having to deal with the emotional damage.

Your BEST chance of avoiding rape or assault when attacked, even by an armed assailant in isolated areas is to scream, kick, fight, defecate, urinate, crash your car (if in a vehicle) and otherwise be as uncooperative as possible.

One example given in a textbook was a woman who was attacked with a knife in a remote park. She immediately grabbed the knife blade and started screaming. The assailant was so taken aback, he simply ran.

She suffered severe cuts to her hand, and the partial loss of mobility to her fingers. She now runs a rape crisis center and does not regret the decision for an instant.

P.P.S. You don't know shit about my attitude on the subject.

[Edited on Nov 18, 2005 by BurningKrome]

Well, I was responding to the attitude you expressed, which seems reasonable to me. So forgive us if we have misunderstood you. But I do think you might accept responsibility for what you actually said.

[Edited on Nov 21, 2005 by Vindice]

I appreciate your response, and do apologize for my...abruptness. It was a bad day. Let me clarify a little better. Here is why I posted what I did...

A) What I said, although I did not preface it this way, will be the probable line of defense taken by the defense attorney...seeing as it is the only unanswered question left in the case. As snowduck mentioned, this is the most common defense presented by rapists...and there is even an interesting article in the current news posts about this. :-) Everything else (whether the managers were in the wrong, whether it was rape, whether it was assault) is fairly inarguable.

The only thing left to question by the courts is why she did not scream, or fight back, when such an action would have probably brought the situation to an immediate close even if it had turned to violent a rape. Probable answers to this question are ...

1. She had been abused as a child, and thus submitted (as sexually abused children often do.)
2. She had a fear of authority at a phobic level, which needs to be addressed.
3. She had been convinced by antiquated information that submitting was the best way to avoid injury.
4. OR...she was willing (an option that should be presented for discussion in any responsible, fair, and open forum...see below)

Items 1 – 3 had already been addresses in the thread. I presented the “ugly fourth option.”

B) Failing to discuss the possibility does an injustice to rape victims. Yes...to the VICTIMS. By failing to think about and discuss the possibility, legitimate or illegitimate, one will be ill prepared to deal with the subject should it come up in an actual situation in ones life...such as you or someone you know being assaulted and having to face the accusation.

Thinking about, and discussing, the ugly side of possibility in advance is akin to thinking about and preparing for a fire in your home. If you do not, you will be toast if it happens.

C) The SG forums are intended as open and frank discussions about fun, and sometimes controversial, subjects. If the point of the news articles is so we can all get together and agree, conformist style, to the obvious opinion we should have on a subject...for fear of offering a politically incorrect option for discussion...then there is no point.

I do apologize for being unclear, and being harsh in my posts...both the one in question and the ones following it. I think, honestly, having feelings so greatly in opposition to those I was being accused of got under my skin. :-)

Thanks you for at least returning and addressing the issue :-)