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heresy2007

heresy2007

New Paltz, NY
July 2004

NOV 07, 2005 09:06 PM

Roethke said:

heresy200 said:

BurningKrome said:
However, she is the only “artist” who has neither medium, subject nor influences. She simply injures herself in public as opposed to injuring herself in private. The fact that she wants to recreate the works of others argues to whether it can even be called “innovative.”



This is where I agree with you 100%. I agreed with most of your last post, but this paragraph pretty much sums up my thoughts on her as an individual artist at this time in her career.

[Edited on Nov 07, 2005 by heresy200]



Maybe I would respect these stunts if she decided to do something new, something she hadn't actually done before. This just seems like she's trying to rekindle the attention she lost when she stopped cock-teasing death with every piece. It's like she's making the career move equivalent to saying "Hey, look at me! My stunts are STILL shocking!"



Yea you should read my first post, it kind of sums up what you said. Since then I have been called stupid, jealous, sexist, and a bastard for making thinking this. I still stand by the fact that she should blow her brains out on a canvas if she's so damn set on dieing for art like she says she is. I'd totally put her on a higher level then all the people she's still trying to be.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

NOV 08, 2005 05:01 AM

heresy200 said:

Roethke said:

heresy200 said:

BurningKrome said:
However, she is the only “artist” who has neither medium, subject nor influences. She simply injures herself in public as opposed to injuring herself in private. The fact that she wants to recreate the works of others argues to whether it can even be called “innovative.”



This is where I agree with you 100%. I agreed with most of your last post, but this paragraph pretty much sums up my thoughts on her as an individual artist at this time in her career.

[Edited on Nov 07, 2005 by heresy200]



Maybe I would respect these stunts if she decided to do something new, something she hadn't actually done before. This just seems like she's trying to rekindle the attention she lost when she stopped cock-teasing death with every piece. It's like she's making the career move equivalent to saying "Hey, look at me! My stunts are STILL shocking!"



Yea you should read my first post, it kind of sums up what you said. Since then I have been called stupid, jealous, sexist, and a bastard for making thinking this. I still stand by the fact that she should blow her brains out on a canvas if she's so damn set on dieing for art like she says she is. I'd totally put her on a higher level then all the people she's still trying to be.


Nevermind, I'll edit out what I wanted to say. If you think that your point about her art was why I implied you were sexist, feel free to think that. I'll just say that your spelling is on level with your comprehension. The last word is yours.

[Edited on Nov 08, 2005 by PointBlank]

heresy2007

heresy2007

New Paltz, NY
July 2004

NOV 08, 2005 06:18 AM

PointBlank said:
You're going to keep insisting that's why I called you a sexist, huh? In addition to learning how to spell, you might want to check out a reading class. Your analysis of her art had NOTHING to do with it. And you have the nerve to claim that what you said goes over my head? I'm not sure that you're deliberately being obtuse, or if this is how you are in everyday life. I'm done with the conversation, I'll let you have the last word.



fuck spelling first of all. And fuck people who can only insult individuals rather then attempt to debate the points of an argument. Your insults are wonderful in that they distract from the actual conversation. Your claims are baseless in that they do NOTHING to disprove my argument other then insult my ability to read. It is as if you have taken lessons from Fox News, and the current Murdoch style of debate.

Yea I was being deliberately ABSTRACT, I wouldn't say obtuse is the right word considering that while it was blunt, it was also thought out and very contrived. Considering that art is my life, that I consider everything I do to be art, that I love the viewer/reader/individual's reaction to my work, it is safe to say that there may have been more to the post that so pissed you off then meets the eye. It's also safe to say that if you want to get into an intellectual debate about the merits of the performance artists movement, whether or not it was art, and if art is actually about being "new" or rather about making pretty pictures, it is pretty safe to say that this discussion will take more then a single post. In that way then, yes, I guess your right. The comment was somewhat "obtuse" only in that it takes longer to discuss art then then what the Internet allows. One could say that it takes even longer when you have to continually respond to baseless and unsupported insults that keep randomly popping like a troll under a bridge.

As for spelling. Theodore Rossevelt once fired a member of his cabinet for playing the "spelling game". There was tension between two members on the staff, one kept using the other's short coming in the area of spelling to avoid debate and make his opponent look stupid. I think Rossevelt's response can be paraphrased as consisting of: In this day and age spelling is the least of my concerns, you can take your leave now so that we may get back to the real issues at hand here.

[Edited on Nov 08, 2005 by heresy200]

Felicia

Felicia

I'm lost
May 2004

NOV 08, 2005 06:52 AM

pavlovsdog said:
I think it's funny that were debating the artistic merit of her self-mutilation on a site that worships people with tattoo's, piercings, and scarifications.



I agree. Perhaps we're too obsessed with "pretty" around here. Art is often not pretty at all.

Roethke

Roethke

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

NOV 08, 2005 10:23 AM

Hemlock said:

pavlovsdog said:
I think it's funny that were debating the artistic merit of her self-mutilation on a site that worships people with tattoo's, piercings, and scarifications.



I agree. Perhaps we're too obsessed with "pretty" around here. Art is often not pretty at all.

That's bullshit, and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. I don't care that's she's hurtng herself. She can have strangers cut her to her heart's content, but it won't make it interesting art. It was once, but now she's just repeating herself.

grahf

grahf

New York, NY
September 2002

NOV 08, 2005 10:43 AM

I think it'll be interesting partly because she's repeating herself.

At the time, the original must have seemed like a one-time only event, because who else would ever be crazy enough to do that? Also you'll have a whole new batch of people who know all about how the first one ended and were thinking "If only I had been alive/in the know back then, I would've done this." She might get shot in the face within the first 15 minutes this time around.

BurningKrome

BurningKrome

San Jose, CA
April 2005

NOV 08, 2005 11:48 PM

OctoberSeven said:

sandman226 said:

OctoberSeven said:
It amazes me whats passed off as art these days. Perhaps I should take a shit on a paper plate and call it art. I wonder how much I could sell that for.



You wouldn't be able to sell if for much. You'd have to die first and then you family could sell it and make millions.



Damn. frown


Maybe if you died WHILE taking the shit...?

heresy200said:
As for spelling. Theodore Rossevelt once fired a member of his cabinet for playing the "spelling game".


Just because I enjoy sadistically adding fuel to the fire, I believe Thomas Jefferson once said, “I’ll never trust a man who knows only one spelling for a word.”

Gwendolyn

Gwendolyn

SUICIDEGIRL

Indiana, USA

NOV 09, 2005 01:23 AM

Hemlock said:

pavlovsdog said:
I think it's funny that were debating the artistic merit of her self-mutilation on a site that worships people with tattoo's, piercings, and scarifications.



I agree. Perhaps we're too obsessed with "pretty" around here. Art is often not pretty at all.



Where did someone say they didn't like what she was doing because it wasn't 'pretty'?

saritalr

saritalr

Mexico
December 2003

NOV 09, 2005 01:55 AM

Liante said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

Liante said:
I can see the Law & Order episode already.


Well, the trial half I can see.

The first half, 20-odd minutes of the two cops finding their way past a half dozen red herrings, seems not so challenging here. wink



Nonsense. You could totally fill up 20 minutes of voyeuristically flipping through black-and-white still shots of her past work (scantily clad, of course, but probably with butcher knives or barbed wire coils or something equally cliche-freaky to strategically cover up the naughty bits), interviewing other crackpot artist-stereotypes for glimpses into her past life and audience members for why they got involved, and -- wait, I've got it, let's throw in her past boyfriends too! All in an effort to "investigate" the motives for why she did this and why the audience members got involved.

Then for the red herring we can have her with a history of past drug abuse that weakened her heart (because, you know, all performance artists use drugs) and inconclusive medical results saying that maybe she was dying of a heart attack from the excitement of the fight before he pulled the trigger.

Man, I should write for this show.




thats genius! thats one of the things i miss about being in the states, not being able to turn on the tv and watch 10 episodes on law and order any time of the day. but i feel like i've just seen a whole show! *applause*

BurningKrome

BurningKrome

San Jose, CA
April 2005

NOV 09, 2005 11:56 AM

pavlovsdog said:
I think it's funny that were debating the artistic merit of her self-mutilation on a site that worships people with tattoo's, piercings, and scarifications.


I don’t think they are comparable. Tattoos, piercings and scarification all leave a lasting, and generally attractive, permanent mark on the body. It takes great skill to leave a good tatt or scar pattern. The canvas is the body, and the art is the ink or scars.

However, in this case, the marks left on the body are neither skillful, attractive nor THE POINT. The “art” in question is the act of self mutilation itself...done publicly, randomly and pointlessly.

She is nothing more than self destructive, self mutilator, who likes to “do it” in front of other people.

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