TOPICS:
Quirky
Birmingham, AL
October 2005
NOV 03, 2005 07:50 AM
Now that I am in college, I am for this.
Reduction of Dumbasses is Penultimate in Priority.
NOV 03, 2005 08:01 AM
Taureolt said:
Now that I am in college, I am for this.
Reduction of Dumbasses is Penultimate in Priority.
If reduction of dumbasses is your penultimate (or next to last), what praytell would be your final priority?
NOV 03, 2005 08:03 AM
Subrosa said:
Taureolt said:
Now that I am in college, I am for this.
Reduction of Dumbasses is Penultimate in Priority.
If reduction of dumbasses is your penultimate (or next to last), what praytell would be your final priority?
Reduction of smartasses, smartass?
NOV 03, 2005 08:11 AM
Anyway, as someone who used to work for Kaplan's primary competitor, I can say that college-admissions coaching is soon going to be as ubiquitous as SAT Prep Courses are. There isn't much that the College Board or college admissions officers can do about it. There's just simply too much money to be made and too many people willing to part with it for the industry not to adapt and go on.
NOV 03, 2005 01:13 PM
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
This article places the new SAT in a very positive light. Well, it is based on a study by Kaplan - the test company. There are many problems with the new SAT that are being debated and protested at these same "top colleges."
Further, some essay tutors (like myself) do not focus on just the specific essay but instead on teaching the student how to think and write better, skills that will benefit them once they get into college. I would spend more time on this, but I actually have to go help someone with their law school essays (seriously).
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Fatality]
Idjit
HOPEFUL
I'm lost
NOV 03, 2005 01:22 PM
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
NOV 03, 2005 01:25 PM
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
and life is unfair to people who suck at it?
edited because i got lost in a double negative. life is unfair
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Maxx]
NOV 03, 2005 01:28 PM
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Agreed, though it should be pointed out that you can get extra time to take the test if you have a documented learning disability.
This article places the new SAT in a very positive light. Well, it is based on a study by Kaplan - the test company. There are many problems with the new SAT that are being debated and protested at these same "top colleges."
Kaplan is not the test company. The College Board/Educational Testing Service is the company that writes and produces the SAT.
Kaplan is a separate company that makes tons and tons of money off the fact that the SAT exists. Because of this, they have an interest in perpetuating the system. Which is why I enjoyed working for The Princeton Review. TPR, despite the fact that they also make tons and tons of money off the fact that the SAT exists, actively works to subvert the College Board and ETS and expose the fact that their tests are racially, culturally and gender biased. Or at least they did when I worked there, which was years ago.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Subrosa]
NOV 03, 2005 01:36 PM
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Meh, I have ADD and took the SAT II Writing Exam and rocked that shit. I wish that could've been every test. More essays, please.
I had the option of taking my regular SATs untimed and I didn't do it (hubris!). I certainly would've done much better if I had (duh, wouldn't everyone?), but I did okay. I was still accepted Early Decision to my top choice, so good enough for me!
NOV 03, 2005 01:38 PM
Subrosa said:
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Agreed, though it should be pointed out that you can get extra time to take the test if you have a documented learning disability.
True, but many highschoolers are not even aware of these problems until they get into college. Plus, it costs money to get the psychological (or other) testing and documentation done. Once the student is in college, there are much more educational resources about the problems and the potential solutions. {In addition, it is not very easy to be granted extra time for standardized tests - they are pretty strict on allowing that.}
This article places the new SAT in a very positive light. Well, it is based on a study by Kaplan - the test company. There are many problems with the new SAT that are being debated and protested at these same "top colleges."
Kaplan is not the test company. The College Board/Educational Testing Service is the company that writes and produces the SAT.
Kaplan is a separate company that makes tons and tons of money off the fact that the SAT exists. Because of this, they have an interest in perpetuating the system. Which is why I enjoyed working for The Princeton Review. TPR, despite the fact that they also make tons and tons of money off the fact that the SAT exists, actively works to subvert the College Board and ETS and expose the fact that their tests are racially, culturally and gender biased. Or at least they did when I worked there, which was years ago.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Subrosa]
Haha, dumb, that's what I meant to say. I think all of my Kaplan-Princeton Review-MCAT books are taking over my mind.
NOV 03, 2005 01:40 PM
Sloane said:
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Meh, I have ADD and took the SAT II Writing Exam and rocked that shit. I wish that could've been every test. More essays, please.
I had the option of taking my regular SATs untimed and I didn't do it (hubris!). I certainly would've done much better if I had (duh, wouldn't everyone?), but I did okay. I was still accepted Early Decision to my top choice, so good enough for me!
That's excellent, but there are probably students with much more severe cases. One example does really make a case.
My brother, for example, had to take his SATs on a morphine drip to endure pain from his shooting. He was not exactly in tip-top shape to be writing a 25 minute essay. If they compare that to his at-home essay and see that there is a discrepancy, should he be discredited?
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Fatality]
NOV 03, 2005 01:41 PM
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
Yes, which is why they can compensate with other portions of their application...like the untimed essay... If you can't perform well under stress, they you may be able to make up for it by writing a kick-ass essay. This new system says, "If you can't do well on timed tests, we compare it to your at-home essay and will conclude that your skill is reflected in the timed test and that you must have gotten help on the at-home essay."
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Fatality]
NOV 03, 2005 01:43 PM
Fatality said:
Subrosa said:
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Agreed, though it should be pointed out that you can get extra time to take the test if you have a documented learning disability.
True, but many highschoolers are not even aware of these problems until they get into college. Plus, it costs money to get the psychological (or other) testing and documentation done.
A very good point. It is not so much that the test discriminates against students with learning disabilities so much as it discriminates against POOR students with learning disabilties. Testing for ADD and dyslexia is pretty prevalent in wealthy and middle class neghborhoods, less so in poor areas. Unfortunately, these poor students are the very ones who might need to do well on an all-important test like this in order to receive a scholarship.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by PointBlank]
Idjit
HOPEFUL
I'm lost
NOV 03, 2005 01:44 PM
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
Yes, which is why they can compensate with other portions of their application...like the untimed essay...
So if that portion is prone to fraud, what's the essay actually telling people reviewing the applications? Sounds like they can no longer count on those essays as being reliable - so what's the solution?
NOV 03, 2005 01:46 PM
Fatality said:
True, but many highschoolers are not even aware of these problems until they get into college. Plus, it costs money to get the psychological (or other) testing and documentation done. Once the student is in college, there are much more educational resources about the problems and the potential solutions. {In addition, it is not very easy to be granted extra time for standardized tests - they are pretty strict on allowing that.}
Agreed on all counts. I just thought it warranted mentioning.
Haha, dumb, that's what I meant to say. I think all of my Kaplan-Princeton Review-MCAT books are taking over my mind.
I hope you took TPR-Hyperlearning. Kaplan's MCAT program is shit compared to TPR's. Almost all of the other tests the programs are virtually identical and it doesn't really matter which one you take, but MCAT is the one where I absolutely still recommend TPR.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Subrosa]
NOV 03, 2005 01:46 PM
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
Yes, which is why they can compensate with other portions of their application...like the untimed essay...
So if that portion is prone to fraud, what's the essay actually telling people reviewing the applications? Sounds like they can no longer count on those essays as being reliable - so what's the solution?
To consider the application as a holistic package taking into account extenuating circumstances, not placing overwhelming value on individual portions, and not making resolute decisions such as "If your untimed essay is better than your timed essay, you must have gotten help."
NOV 03, 2005 01:49 PM
Subrosa said:
Fatality said:
True, but many highschoolers are not even aware of these problems until they get into college. Plus, it costs money to get the psychological (or other) testing and documentation done. Once the student is in college, there are much more educational resources about the problems and the potential solutions. {In addition, it is not very easy to be granted extra time for standardized tests - they are pretty strict on allowing that.}
Agreed on all counts. I just thought it warranted mentioning.
Haha, dumb, that's what I meant to say. I think all of my Kaplan-Princeton Review-MCAT books are taking over my mind.
I hope you took TPR-Hyperlearning. Kaplan's MCAT program is shit compared to TPR's. Almost all of the other tests the programs are virtually identical and it doesn't really matter which one you take, but MCAT is the one where I absolutely still recommend TPR.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Subrosa]
Oh, I'm not taking any course, I just bought some review books to study on my own. But thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind in case enough money falls into my lap to enroll in one, seriously.
Idjit
HOPEFUL
I'm lost
NOV 03, 2005 01:50 PM
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Couldn't you make this same argument about all forms of testing? Like, SATs in general are unfair to people who can't perform well under stress?
Yes, which is why they can compensate with other portions of their application...like the untimed essay...
So if that portion is prone to fraud, what's the essay actually telling people reviewing the applications? Sounds like they can no longer count on those essays as being reliable - so what's the solution?
To consider the application as a holistic package taking into account extenuating circumstances, not placing overwhelming value on individual portions, and not making resolute decisions such as "If your untimed essay is better than your timed essay, you must have gotten help."
You're making the assumption that that is the conclusion the reviewers will immediately jump to. It sounds to me like it's just another data point to see how much of a deviation there is between the SAT essay and the un-timed. I would imagine it's not difficult to tell the difference between someone who's dyslexic and someone who's hired a ghost writer.
NOV 03, 2005 01:51 PM
Fatality said:
Sloane said:
Fatality said:
There is nothing wrong with re-writing and polishing up an essay; in fact it shows dedication, interest, and commitment.
Secondly, this system discriminates against students with learning differences such as dyslexia, ADD, and panic disorder whose timed-writing does not reflect their ability to think or write. Bold, because that is actually my only important point.
Meh, I have ADD and took the SAT II Writing Exam and rocked that shit. I wish that could've been every test. More essays, please.
I had the option of taking my regular SATs untimed and I didn't do it (hubris!). I certainly would've done much better if I had (duh, wouldn't everyone?), but I did okay. I was still accepted Early Decision to my top choice, so good enough for me!
That's excellent, but there are probably students with much more severe cases. One example does really make a case.
My brother, for example, had to take his SATs on a morphine drip to endure pain from his shooting. He was not exactly in tip-top shape to be writing a 25 minute essay. If they compare that to his at-home essay and see that there is a discrepancy, should he be discredited?
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Fatality]
Of course not! Uh, it's been like 10 years since I went through this shit and I don't remember the rules AT ALL, but I am shocked that your brother was forced to take the exam while on a morphine drip! They wouldn't allow him to take the test after he'd healed? That is crazy.
NOV 03, 2005 01:54 PM
Idjiit said:
I would imagine it's not difficult to tell the difference between someone who's dyslexic and someone who's hired a ghost writer.
Actually, it probably is very difficult. I just took a training course this past weekend (for six hours) on how to identify dyslexic writing (and ESOL writing and anxiety in writing and etc.). I have been trained in these areas for the past year, and it is still difficult; I don't imagine that it is easy for someone who has no idea of the charactersitic (and variable) signs to look for.
NOV 03, 2005 01:57 PM
Sloane said:
Of course not! Uh, it's been like 10 years since I went through this shit and I don't remember the rules AT ALL, but I am shocked that your brother was forced to take the exam while on a morphine drip! They wouldn't allow him to take the test after he'd healed? That is crazy.
He had already been out of school (not graduated, just on leave because of injury) for a couple years and didn't want to push off his application even further. It was his choice whether to have the medication and be comfortable, so that the pain didn't distract him but have the mental effects of the compound or the opposite set-up.
Oh, and Sloane, I didn't mean to use his example as an end-all-be-all either. I just wanted to illustrate that there probably are a huge range of situations similar to both his and yours. Sorry if it sounded like I was saying, "Well, you aren't even thinking of my brother" or something like that.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by Fatality]
Idjit
HOPEFUL
I'm lost
NOV 03, 2005 01:59 PM
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
I would imagine it's not difficult to tell the difference between someone who's dyslexic and someone who's hired a ghost writer.
Actually, it probably is very difficult. I just took a training course this past weekend (for six hours) on how to identify dyslexic writing (and ESOL writing and anxiety in writing and etc.). I have been trained in these areas for the past year, and it is still difficult; I don't imagine that it is easy for someone who has no idea of the charactersitic (and variable) signs to look for.
So then basically you're saying nothing should change about the application process? Should the people actually involved in the application process and have problems with it just quit whining, or what? Or is this just a problem manufactured by Kaplan or whoever to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
NOV 03, 2005 02:02 PM
Idjiit said:
Fatality said:
Idjiit said:
I would imagine it's not difficult to tell the difference between someone who's dyslexic and someone who's hired a ghost writer.
Actually, it probably is very difficult. I just took a training course this past weekend (for six hours) on how to identify dyslexic writing (and ESOL writing and anxiety in writing and etc.). I have been trained in these areas for the past year, and it is still difficult; I don't imagine that it is easy for someone who has no idea of the charactersitic (and variable) signs to look for.
So then basically you're saying nothing should change about the application process? Should the people actually involved in the application process and have problems with it just quit whining, or what? Or is this just a problem manufactured by Kaplan or whoever to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
Woah, hang on. I'm not making any such broad conclusions or inclusive statements, nor did I intend to convey them anywhere within my text. I don't really think I said any of that. I was just pointing out some other factors that need to be considered.
NOV 03, 2005 02:04 PM
I think the problem is that this survey is claiming that the new SAT essay portion is a decent remedy for the problem of fraudulent personal essays, when, in fact it is the SAT itself, and over-reliance upon it, that is the problem with the college admissions process. Also, students really shouldn't be penalized for turning in an essay that is significantly more polished than a 25 minute test essay.
[Edited on Nov 03, 2005 by PointBlank]
misstyrios
NEWSWIRE
Allston, MA
NOV 03, 2005 07:35 AM