NEWS: FBI Takes War Against Porn Against Erotic Writing

Oooh. I'm glad I'm in Canada, 'cause I just realized whats all over my hard drive.

I have three daughters. They are the world to me. I would take a citrus zester to the entirety of the body of anyone who harmed them and feed them the flesh I peeled off their body.

I still wholly believe that all writing should be protected. If I'm allowed to have my desire to beat people's skulls in with baseball bats satiated by video games, then pervy little creeps can have their sick little stories. As long as real people aren't getting hurt, I don't give a shit and would rather not chance the moral righteousness from creeping over and meddling in my own perversions.

It doesn't matter if it's disgusting or not. You don't have to like it, but as long as no actual act is being commited (and no one is being harmed in the process) then the first ammendment should protect fiction writing.

When will this fascistic moral oppression end?!

whats next invade poland ??

The laws governing "pornographic content" are so nebulous that they can strike down anything that does not suit their tastes basically. I mean., . .they are going to war against rape stories? And yet you can buy Harold Robins The Lonely Lady which has a very detailed rape scene. . .under age sex? And yet Lolita still sells in Barnes and Noble. The moment you find yourself sitting in judgement of the "artistic merit" of a work you are on thin ice because then freedom becomes a matter of popularity and nothing more.

I have several books of erotica out through a publisher and got notice that we might need to "tone them down a bit". Told them I'd rather be unpublished. The day you let them change your words. . .your words lose their value.

These are not cases of censorship.

The examples you cited are criminal in and of themselves, regardless of the words used in the documents....

Nobody takes a ransom note and edits out the bad words before handing it to the parents of the kidnapped victim.

Censorship is the control of language....

Once again, let me encourage you to read the prolog of 1984 to find out how controling language relates to controling minds.

Look, like I said, I think what the FBI is doing is bullshit. But what you said about "censorship of the written word is unconstitutional" is untrue. And the above examples ARE censorship, even by your definition. They are all the control of language.

Also, to take it back to this issue, the Government will argue that the "censored" works are obscene and thus illegal in and of themselves. That doesn't mean they're right, but it's not nearly as cut and dried as you've laid it out to be. And THAT's what makes this all so scary. Because it's NOT clearly unconstitutional.

As much as I'd love the First Amendment to be as absolute as the words on the page, it just is not in the practical legal sense. To pretend otherwise actually does a disservice to your argument by failing to take into account the intracacies of freedom of expression law.

Calling all civil dissidents!!!
Anybody care to teach me how to link the FBI website to a child porn site??
Shit, I'm not even in the U.S., and the FBI is fucking with MY civil liberties.

Seriously, though, there is a lot of talent, intelligence and imagination held in the collective mind of this community, surely someone has an interesting idea for how to stick it to these fuckers.

I was thinking that I could collect samples of all the shit the FBI is banning, and publish it through Lulu.com, with any sales being donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the Free Speech Coalition.

But then I thought, people would be better served just donating directly, instead of having to pay for something that should never have been taken away from them in the first place…

Any ideas??

First off, don't let me get under your skin.... I know that we're both on the same side of this argument.
But not everyone here is.... and I gotta say my bit... Opinions are like assholes... everybody has one, and they all stink....

In terms of your argument, I'll have to relent; at least in the example of the legality of revealing national security related material, as being a .

And I suppose you could see laws against liable as a type of censorship - if you squint real hard. But libel has connotations of deception and misrepresentation - I still think that since this is an example of something that is illegal outside the scope of free speech or free press, it would fall into a gray area.


But, I'd still have to argue that in the case of writing out intentions to kill.... would be a case of something more along the lines of - conspiracy to commit murder. Communicating your intention to commit any crime to anybody is in and of it's self a crime.

And I've seen plenty of examples of books that that the government hasn't dared to censor on the subject or killing somebody.
I mean there are lots of books available clearly suggesting and detailing the mass scale murdering and genocide of entire cultures.
There are even published books outlining the murder of the US president and the subsequent violent take-over of the united states.

I don't have any examples in my library, so I can't cite examples; but these do exist - real books published by real publishers- not just opinions on the Internet. The one illustrating the violent overthrow of our government is a real famous one... I wish I could remember the title.


Hey I got hung up on Big Brother in 1984, and I kept thinking of their use of mind control via lexicon control. I'll have to admit, that's not exactly what's going on here.

The real thing here.... no doubt it's complex. But ruled as obscene or not, I don't believe it's anybody's right to make it illegal - not when you have the simple option of choosing not to read it.

And there is nothing in the bill of rights about freedom of press - expept in the care where somebody decides that it's obcene.
The first amendment does not make exceptions where by that right can be infringed upon.

When the bill of rights was drafted, it was with the intent of keeping the power in the hands of the people, not the government. I mean every one of the first ten amendments is about what they CAN'T do to you. The cant shut you up, they cant take your gun, they cant search you without your consent or without enough evidence to get a court order to do so, they can't make you testify yourself, they can't put you on trail for the same crime more than once, etc.... (I always get foggy after fifth amendment... next one about the military displacing you and eating your food and sleeping in your bed, or something?)
It's all about what they can't do.... and to infringe upon those rights, is unconstitutional.

Am I wrong here? Is there a constitutional amendment concerning pornography?

Thomas Jefferson once wrote:
"What country could preserve its liberties if its rulers are not reminded from time to time that their people preserve the spirit or resistance. Let them take arms - the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Sounds to me like Jefferson wanted the government to fear the people... It's pretty clear here that he felt that presidents should be threatened. The should get mail saying that their days are numbered....
Hey but that's just my opinion... I freely admit that I'm just as myopic as the assholes who started this assault on porn....

The important thing is that I have the right to say that I think this is fucked for one reason, and you have the right to say that I'm wrong - and in fact this is fucked for an entirely different reason. I respect people's rights to disagree with me, but not to make it illegal for me to say that I disagree with them.


Fuck... I'm sorry I can't shut up here..... I obviously am loosing my perspective. Maybe it isn't unconsitutional, but I do know when I'm getting fucked.... and the government is fucking us all by placing exceptions on our abilities to communicate.

personally i prefer animals.not that i want to fuck them,but then again...

consent

ours.
not theirs.

What the fuck is this fucking "War on Porn" shit. It is so fucked up that the government is cracking down on so-called "Porn" witch in fact is fucking art. This is fucking bullshit it is fucking damn "Erotic Art" if the government cannot handle it they can go fuck them. Children can fucking get into this website without paying first. To all parents and Hollywood fuck head would you rather have all the violence and deaths in the world or a little skin. I would rather have some fucking “Erotic Art” than all the reports of murder, reap, war, hate, suicide, and violence on the fucking “Negative” news. What’s next are you fuck-ass government types going stop metal music bands from swearing on their fucking records. I just have one more thing to say to you fuck-ass government types fuck you all.

Knot Sic fucking out…

The most valuable lesson I’ve ever learned was from a high school teacher of mine. He told me during class discussion that the constitution grants the citizens of the U.S. no rights whatsoever. He told me: all of our rights as human beings are innate, inalienable. All the constitution did was try it’s best to keep the government from infringing upon those rights. The Powers That Be can make whatever laws they please, and arrest whomever they want. My rights are mine from birth, and no level of tyrannical rule can change that.

I've thought about that class a lot lately.

[Edited on Oct 14, 2005 by TheRedBaron]