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3/21/05

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dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

MAR 20, 2005 03:24 PM

EnfantTerrible said:

EnfantTerrible said:
Riiiight, like you know.


Riiiight, like you know.


WHERE'S MR WINKY? mad mad




wink tongue

mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

MAR 20, 2005 03:28 PM

demetrius_z said:

mat8drb said:
DAMN **** STEALING MY BIKE mad


Racial slurs aren't nice and are not needed.


I do apologise. I was using in it the slang / colloquial term of phrase. I have edited the original.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 20, 2005 03:46 PM

Cash said:

Snottlebocket said:
stop your whining, we pay more per liter than you do per gallon, that's four times as much as you.



That is THE dumbest reasoning in the history of thought. Congratulations...it's not every day that somebody says something as galatically stupid as that.

The problem that the original poster has is the sharp increase in price over a short time. Price is a variable. It's relative to the discussion.


Not a bit of it. Snottlebocket's point is to say "I see your comparison-over-time whining and I raise you a comparison-over-space whine."

And why not? It's (almost) like a poor person hearing a rich dude whining about how the green fees of the local golf club have risen recently. Well, boo-fucking-hoo, know what I'm saying? On the international scale, "gas" is not expensive in the US, even now.

EnfantTerrible said:
The price of gas is FAR outpacing all other price increases in our marketplace. This is something more than just covering overhead, like tarriffs and shipping or from normal inflation rates. When I was 18(10 years ago) I paid 85 cents a gallon. 300-400% inflation in 10 years is something else all together. It is a mystery to me.


But that's exactly what you would expect. The price of oil, over time, in trend terms, should rise faster than the CPI. It's an exhaustible resource, which means its relative scarcity is always going to get worse. This trend does get offset by new oil discoveries, new technologies and productivity improvements, but it can't be offset forever.

Here is a news story I posted some time back on this very issue.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 20, 2005 03:53 PM

EnfantTerrible said:
riiiight, like you know


Ssshh.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 20, 2005 04:08 PM

EnfantTerrible said:
If oil is getting more scarce, and thus more expensive, why are products made with petroleum products becoming more numerous and cheaper?


Such as?

Knights_Cross

Knights_Cross

Naperville, IL
March 2003

MAR 20, 2005 04:17 PM

Gas prices are going up because as stated its the spring and summer will be here soon as well. More vehicles on the road so the prices always go up. That and petroleum supplies are steadily decreasing every year. Can't do anything about it unfortunately.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 20, 2005 04:29 PM

EnfantTerrible said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

EnfantTerrible said:
If oil is getting more scarce, and thus more expensive, why are products made with petroleum products becoming more numerous and cheaper?


Such as?




plastics is the one that came to mind immediately


Well, to anticipate the "riiiiight" that is surely coming, I don't know the answer.

My speculations:
- oil prices are a small component of the costs of plastics manufacture
- plastics manufacturers are good at hedging by buying the required petroleum products at contractually agreed prices
- the rises we're talking about here have yet to start biting in the manufactured goods sector, but give it time, give it time ....

hotcurry

hotcurry

Los Angeles, CA
June 2004

MAR 20, 2005 04:35 PM

mat8drb said:
*Laughs so hard he cries*

It is $7 here.




So true. And we don't have to pay a fee to drive into our cites at a certain hour.

moniker42

moniker42

Seattle, WA
October 2003

MAR 20, 2005 04:39 PM

Consider all the shitty plastic stuff they peddle to children to an alarming extent and how much petroleum and energy they cost.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 20, 2005 04:40 PM

hotcurry said:

mat8drb said:
*Laughs so hard he cries*

It is $7 here.




So true. And we don't have to pay a fee to drive into our cites at a certain hour.


Give it time, give it time ... tongue

hotcurry

hotcurry

Los Angeles, CA
June 2004

MAR 20, 2005 04:42 PM

*sigh* I know. We're doomed.

moniker42

moniker42

Seattle, WA
October 2003

MAR 20, 2005 04:46 PM

It's not too late.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

MAR 21, 2005 12:20 AM

Just watching the news on TV right now and there's a chart on there showing oil prices and Chinese oil imports pretty much moving in lockstep.

BadStoryDan

BadStoryDan

Vancouver, BC
January 2005

MAR 21, 2005 01:05 AM

Stiles said:
Jesus, another gas price thread.

Here goes, listen up:

Worldwide oil consumption is now at virtually 100% of production capacity. This means that pumps worldwide are running wide open just to meet current demand. There is no meaningful extra capacity presently. Any interruption in supply under such conditions means a big spike in prices until markets calm down. Domestic unrest in Venezuela, pipeline hits in Iraq, hurricanes in Florida, earthquakes in California, stuff like that will spike prices.

Also:

China is now the #2 oil consumer in the world, behind the US.
India is getting up there too.

Consumption is rising rapidly in both of those countries and has a long way to rise before approaching U.S. per-capita levels, so gas isn't going to get much cheaper, ever, unless China/India suffer a major economic collapse and/or the world goes back into a deep recession. That would suck even more for a wide variety of reasons;use your imagination.

This situation is made worse by individual states mandating different individual fuel recipies for clean-air rules. This means gas made for sale in Utah cannot be transferred to California if there is a pipeline problem, etc. for example.

The bottom line is that gas will very likely only get more expensive from here, so get used to it and plan accordingly. I suggest buying a smaller, more fuel-efficient car, (or motorcycle or scooter), moving closer to work if possible, riding your bicycle, walking, public transit, etc.




Actually, the cost of gasoline isn't necessarily tied to the various setbacks and limitations of production; gas companies determine prices solely on the demand level of consumers. There is obviously a natural constraint to the supply in the absolute capacity of all oil reserves and production capacity, hovever the gas companiess' goal is Return on Investment - They will definitely charge what the market will bear, but by justifying higher oil costs with media reports of limited oil supplies and supply line problems (oil reserves in most countries far exceed the amount needed to weather a small blip due to a supply line failure) the gas companies effectively inflate the price people are willing to pay for their gasoline.

This is not to say that oil costs don't fluctuate or that these costs aren't passed on to the end user, it's just that gas companies raise and lower prices based on driving demand (i.e. holiday weekends,, weekly cycles) and only over the mid- to long-term think about the cost of crude on the world market. The oligopoly (at least here in Canada) that gas companies have set up works very efficiently to reap monopoly rents (profits) in an industry that is on its way out.

... Or at least that's what my Government and Business prof told me in third year..

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

MAR 21, 2005 07:29 AM

That's all well and good (and true), but oil is a publicly traded commodity, and the flipside to publicly traded commodities is that people will only pay what they think it is worth before buying something else instead. It's a need vs. cost vs. cost of alternatives thing.

OPEC knows this, which is why it is running essentially wide-open to do what it can to lower prices, within reason. Otherwise, they would cut back production to send prices even higher, so they could make even more money. They know that record-setting prices will eventually turn consumers to conservation. It might take a long time, in the case of America - but I can almost guarantee that people will buy smaller cars and drive less when it costs half of a car payment to fill the tank of a fullsize pickup truck.

Of course companies are in the business of staying in business first and foremost, and highly cyclical industries such as the oil industry have every reason to pursue record profits when market conditions allow them, since lean times that inevitably follow (until now, that is) inflict pain.

Do oil companies game the system and use every excuse in the book to raise prices? Of course.

Is that more than just one component of record-high gasoline prices?

No.

MissMeeMee

MissMeeMee

United Kingdom
March 2005

MAR 21, 2005 07:53 AM




wink

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