NEWS: Beat A Satanist For Christ

CULTURE: Beat A Satanist For Christ

After kicking the ass of a Satanist with a metal club and an ice scraper, two men may be charged with committing a hate crime. While obviously not a love crime, Joseph Seehusen (executive director of the Libertarian Party) is outraged.

Personally, I love how two 18-year men who beat someone with a metal club and an ice scraper for being different can be called "nice kids".

Where do I sign up?

I find it wierd how the Libertarians are fighting this.

Maybe they just want the hate crime laws to be examined in court.

Satanism is a religion, whether you like it or not. If you physically attack someone because of their religion, it's a hate crime. This is not "bizarre interpretation of the law."

So cool. Maybe this will help more people understand that a body of laws that make crimes against certain people carry a higher penalty due to the assailants thought process' are a bad idea, regardless of whether the victim is a homosexual, a minority, or a satanist.

I'd be interested to see what the same people's thoughts would be if it was a priest or a rabbi being attacked for their beliefs. While I'm not sure where I stand on punishing someone more or less based on the motivation of the crime (ie. beating the shit out of someone is pretty bad no matter why you do it) if you are going to enforce it for religious beliefs that would include most any legally recognized religion.

aren't satanists religious minorities as well? Those two guys are stupid, but the satanist isn't very clever either. The whole point of being satanic is being subversive! And by the way, wearing a marylyn manson shirt does not make you a satanist.

aren't satanists religious minorities as well? Those two guys are stupid, but the satanist isn't very clever either. The whole point of being satanic is being subversive! And by the way, wearing a marylyn manson shirt does not make you a satanist.

[Edited on Jan 17, 2005 4:31PM]

is satanism a religion? does it have tax-exmpt status?

satanism has nothing to do with satan worship. the church doesnt believe in God or Satan. this isnt angsty 16yr old goth kids getting together. its pretty much hedonism yet they believe in ways of moral behaviour as long as its for benefitting yourself also... which is how i guess they rationalize being hedonistic.
my favorite thing recently was listening to alan combs on fox radio when he had a satanist church member on the show to take calls and he was a REALLY nice quiet laid back guy so explained whats it about very fairly and without christian bashing and then this 'christian' comes on and insists the man is going to burn in hell and how can he be fine with that!~? explaination 'well sir i dont believe in God so i dont believe there is a hell or heaven' that just pissed the guy off more and he pretty much ended it by calling people names

fun little story i thought

edit: yes it is a hate crime. libertarians fighting it ? makes me sad. they are just afraid of losing support instead of what should be sticking to your guns and peoples rights

[Edited on Jan 17, 2005 by Testm0nkey]

That's exactly it. We can hope they will eventually get them overturned.

I can't imagine sending someone to prison for a longer term, because they hate "white", "black", "latino", etc. races, would help their rehabilitation.

What these men did was wrong. They didn't get into a casual fight, they got into a beating of a person, complete with weaponry, and that is wrong. they should be punished to the full extent of the law for such an offense.

I'm kind of annoyed though. the article doesn't mention that these young men were of any particular religon, so I kind of feel the title of this post is at best misleading.

hate crimes are some of the most violent in my mind. murderers without 'reason', simply out of stereotypes, racial/sexual/gender hatred are the most dangerous ones. their trigger is simply a group of people that doesnt sound like someone who wouldnt kill again on his own or has any remorse what so ever. theres no justification for that. there are reasons why this was put into place.

"Lets go kill a nigger" is the same as "Lets go kill that guy for his money"? Well one murder still occurs, but I think the distinction is important

Nice kids? They beat someone with a metal club and an ice pick. I don't care if it's a hate crime or not, or whatever they're motivation is. That's wrong.

And Satanism is a religion whether they like it or not. One person's religion is another person's heathenism.

Is it possible that their agenda is not what they claim it to be?

Monkeys, exaclty right on this- hate crimes tend to be far more savage and remorseless than a murder motivated by greed, and a person who would commit a hate crime is far more likely to reoffend in the same manner, because the reason for the murder is part of their belief system. Look at the murder of Matthew Sheppard, or a KKK Lynching and tell me that those are on par for brutality as a convenience store robbery gone wrong.

Well then, prosecute based on the savageness, not the intent. I do agree that the murder of Matthew Shepard was disgusting, more so than shooting a convenience store clerk in the head. But would the "hate crime" be worth a greater prison sentence if the murderers had executed him relatively painlessly and the robbers beat and gutshot the store clerk?

Isn't comparing a lynching to a convenience store robbery a bit lop-sided? While I do agree that the story of Matthew Shepperd is a testament to the true brutality of prejudice, I think you're overlooking the the big picture. People do these things to each other on a daily basis with similiar stupid reasons. If the state sets the precedent that murder by one motivation is worse than the other, then this creates the impression that there is a moral scale to the act itself: instead of the absolute that killing another person is taboo, then there is a set of degrees of how horrible a murder can be. Logically, if you establish such a scale in which one murder can be judged worse than the other, then inversely one could say that one murder can be more justified than the other.

And what exactly are the social benefits of hate crime laws? I'm guessing the original intent was to decrease the violent crimes inflicted upon harassed minority groups, but where is the data showing that these laws have protected there groups adequately? And how is this supposed to serve as a deterrent? If the murders were not discouraged by the punitive consequences before, then what purpose does a few extra years serve? A murderer has no real intention of getting caught, or else they wouldn't commit murder; who is really worth killing for decades of shower rape and hard cots?

This is exactly the argument for the death penalty: instead of the absolute that killing another person is taboo, then there is a killing that's allowed, because of the nature of the victim.

^^^ Also if having "more severe" penalties for hate crimes is supposed to decrease hate crimes, why not have "more severe" penalties for ALL violent crimes and decrease them all?

Except that, well, that probably wouldn't do anything.

By the way, side note... because I honestly don't know... what do "satanists" (if it is indeed a protected "religion") hold as their doctrine? Do they believe in heaven and hell? What do they believe happens to satanists after they die?

I'm just wondering, because Satan seems like either a real or invented religious notion, but either way Satan is sort of defined as being on the losing side, and his followers suffer. I'm not really sure if Satanists sort of just steal the idea of Satan yet make up their own doctrine surrounding him, or if they have some sort of completely seperate notion of Satan, or if they believe following Satan means a life of hell and actually want that, or what...

I don't really get the objections to hate crime laws. How is it different than the existing grades of a crime, first degree, second degree, etc. If you kill someone there is already a wide range of things you may be charged with, depending on your motive and intent. How do hate crime laws, which identify a particularly dangerous motive, change this?

Stop namedropping. You don't know me.

No, I am your father.