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Christopher

Christopher

Portland, OR
November 2002

DEC 30, 2004 11:47 PM

A report from the American Heart Association has found that ten percent of children between two and five are obese. The findings from the A.H.A. seem to find a correlation between an ever increasing rate of adult obesity and preschoolers.

I think that what we're seeing is that obesity is increasing across the board in adults, adolescents and children," Dr. Christopher O'Donnell, chairman of the heart association's statistics committee and associate director of the Framingham Heart Study, which has been following the health of generations of Massachusetts residents.

Experts blame the prevalence of junk food marketed to children, too much TV, and the decline in the number of families who sit down together to eat.

Dr. Sarah Blumenschein, an assistant professor of pediatric cardiology at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, said doctors and parents need to watch the weight of even very young children.


Doctors believe that the cases of diabetes, stroke, and heart disease will “skyrocket in 10 to 30 years.”

I worry about the number of people who will develop eating disorders by the time they’re in kindergarten, have horrendous body image issues, and never develop a notion of eating healthy because they are always on “a diet.”

pygmy

pygmy

Portland, OR
July 2004

DEC 31, 2004 04:09 PM

frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown

hermetica

hermetica

Cook Islands
January 2004

DEC 31, 2004 04:21 PM

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown



You wouldnt happen to have studies or a link on that would you? Just curious.

pygmy

pygmy

Portland, OR
July 2004

DEC 31, 2004 04:35 PM

hermetica said:

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown



You wouldnt happen to have studies or a link on that would you? Just curious.



Really, the best is a book by Dr. Russel Blaylock, _Excitotoxins_.

For general anti-MSG things:

www.msgfree.org particularly the discussion area
www.msgmyth.com
www.truthinlabeling.org has the best medical explainations/links to studies/references
www.msgfacts.net

There are lots of different studies: Most I could give you are in medical journals etc, through my library, and you need to subscribe and all of that. And, they're not written for laymen (not to presume you don't know much about it, but..you get the idea)

remusisdying

remusisdying

Brighton, MA
March 2004

DEC 31, 2004 04:53 PM

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown




while msg is certainly part of the problem, you cant ignore the role of other foods and their ingredients. this type of problem cannot be solely the fault of one amino acid added to food products; its clearly a systemic problem, and msg is simply one part of that.

thegoatlord

thegoatlord

Kokomo, IN
August 2003

DEC 31, 2004 04:57 PM

i didnt read any replies, but its because people hear the baby cry and then shove a bottle or food in its mouth..

sad, but true.

inkncarrots

inkncarrots

San Diego, CA
March 2004

DEC 31, 2004 04:58 PM

Let us not forget fast food and some parents' increasing dependence on it. Fast food is oh so convenient for busy families and now we are seeing the consequences.

Midnyte

Midnyte

SUICIDEGIRL

Arizona, USA

DEC 31, 2004 05:10 PM

Being on "a diet" is so not the way to fix obesity. Stopping eating at McDonald's and not shoving snack foods into one's face is the way to be healthy.

I was a size 3 most of my post pubescent life. Then in my early 20's I lived with obese people and had the normal early 20's metabolism slow down and I got plumpish.

Once I broke up with the boy with the obese family, quit smoking and dated someone who was into healthy eating I lost the weight without even thinking about it. I found when I eat right I don't crave food. I wish they would spend more time teaching people in school about their health. Sadly it is more often (this is obviously not exclusive, but statistically accurate) the lowest echelons of society who are obese and have obese kids. Unfortunately the cheap eats are also the ones worst for you. And those people who are struggling just to get by are the ones who are not able to get continued education as adults, so if they have not had good dietary education by 10th grade they may never get it.

I don't like to think of people developing eating disorders or body image problems, but being obese is more dangerous than smoking and eating poorly is after all, a choice. We have managed to accept looking down on people who smoke, I would like to see less public acceptance of obesity as well. Especially the really really obese kids. That is child abuse just as much as if I was to dope my child on Nyquil or give my 5 year old cigarettes. It sets the poor person up for a lifetime of health problems and silent discrimination.

I think promoting a healthy size (probably a 3-10 for most women) is important as is explaining how to be that size. Not the stupid model diet of barfing and celery. It is entirely possible to be a healthy weight without barfing, starving or killing yourself at the gym. I'd like to see less of people attributing thinness to eating disorders then maybe less people would try going down those roads to get thin.

pygmy

pygmy

Portland, OR
July 2004

DEC 31, 2004 05:10 PM

remusisdying said:

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown




while msg is certainly part of the problem, you cant ignore the role of other foods and their ingredients. this type of problem cannot be solely the fault of one amino acid added to food products; its clearly a systemic problem, and msg is simply one part of that.



Of course.

Also, to clarify: I simply say "MSG" out of convenience: It goes under other names, and there are a whole group of other amino acids that are excitotoxic (aspartame, lysine, etc), which I also refer to.
And there are other complexities: The lack of antioxidants and other things like Taurine that combat the negative effects of MSG..

Also, one thing that I have wondered about is that maybe a lot of our eating habits are meant to be a quick fix to some of the symptoms of excitotoxicity. For instance, eating 2 tablespoons of sugar has been shown to decrease absorbtion of free glutamate. Also, we may feel some immediate benefit to eating very sugary things because.. Well, there are glutamate receptors in the pancreas, which become overexcited, causing us to become hypoglycemic (also, there are other forces at play in this end result, but they're more complicated and this sentence is already way too long tongue ).. You can imagine the possible corrolations to diabetes in this, as well. Also, caffeine has seemed to help me with my MSG sensitivity, and I have my own hypothesis about that.. I haven't seen any studies about that in particular, so I'll keep my speculations to myself.

Certainly, there are always other reasons.. People were obese before MSG became mass-produced. I am just saying, that there has been some major change in the past 60 years (which, incidentally, is about when MSG became a part of the American diet), and it may be a major catalyst/cause, more than people tend to think.

dirtyground

dirtyground

Chicago, IL
August 2003

DEC 31, 2004 05:38 PM

this really is a sedate culture we live in.

everything can be done sitting down with no wires. kids just dont want to go outside and play.

i thank God that i grew up in rural england and my parents didnt buy me a sega!

The_Incubator

The_Incubator

I'm lost
October 2004

DEC 31, 2004 06:31 PM

pygmy said:
Certainly, there are always other reasons.. People were obese before MSG became mass-produced. I am just saying, that there has been some major change in the past 60 years (which, incidentally, is about when MSG became a part of the American diet), and it may be a major catalyst/cause, more than people tend to think.



There's a _lot_ more to it than MSG. As bad as that stuff may or may not be, it's way down on the list of Shit Americans Do Wrong With Their Diets. I mean look at Japan, if ever there were a group of people that lace everything with MSG it's them, and they are slim and have one of the longest life expectancies on earth.

How about the fact that Americans don't fucking move? Ever? Or get the bulk of their calories from refined carbohydrates (white flour and sugar)? Believe limiting dietary fat is healthy? Use hydrogenated oils? Don't eat plants?

Pretty much everything is wrong with the average American diet, so it seems silly to point out one additive or even a small handful of things... If people were eating awesome diets to begin with, exercising like crazy, and just sprinkling on a little MSG here and there, it would be one thing, but we're not even close.

Nick

insolite

insolite

Alexandria, VA
December 2004

DEC 31, 2004 06:53 PM

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown




i have read other places that glutamate in excess can cause weight loss. glutamate does lots of things but causing brain damage isn't one of them, unless you're on a constant IV of spoonfuls upon spoonfuls of the stuff. if MSG makes you fat, why do china and japan, both who consume far more msg and other EAAs [excitatory amino acids] per capita than americans do have a fraction of the obesity rates as the US? free access to calorie-dense, nutrient-light, highly-processed junk food that's marketed to people as soon as they pop out of the womb is a big part of the problem. go to bed-stuy or western kentucky and you'll find that it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to live off of fried chicken and convenience store junk food than it is to find fresh fruits or vegetables beyond a few overripe apples or bananas. sprawling development that makes it hard to walk from point a to point b makes people fatter too - compare obesity rates in manhattan and houston. then there's increasing workloads + single-parent/two-working-parent households that leave less time for preparing meals or sitting down to eat them together. portion sizes have been increasing over the last 25 years . if you put more food in front of a person, they will eat more. there are 1001 reasons that waistlines have been expanding and MSG is not one of them. neither is aspartate or lysine or any of the other amino acids, at least not in the amounts that are present in even the most extreme western diet. see http://www.snopes.com/toxins/aspartame.asp for more.

as for the idea that teaching kids that being overweight is bad for them leads to anorexia -- greg critser lays into the idea at length in _fat land_, and i refer anyone who's interested to it for more in depth information than i can offer here. suffice it to say that teaching people about proper eating + exercise habits doesn't make people anorexic; being from an upper-income background and having control issues is much more likely to do it. in any case, obesity kills and injures and reduces the quality of life for many many many more times the people that anorexia does. getting people to eat better from the start is probably the best and most pain-free way to live healthily. worry about excitotoxicity when you're having a stroke. otherwise, eat well.

Lain

Lain

Astoria, NY
April 2004

DEC 31, 2004 07:32 PM

I knew a family who have their baby pepsi in his bottle when he went to sleep.

Years of teeth problems ahead.

Wren

Wren

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

DEC 31, 2004 07:51 PM

Eh, little kids are assholes, anyway.

jholtsnider

jholtsnider

I'm lost
February 2004

DEC 31, 2004 08:28 PM

Midnyte said:
Being on "a diet" is so not the way to fix obesity. Stopping eating at McDonald's and not shoving snack foods into one's face is the way to be healthy.



This made me laugh. Why? Because people are always asking me if I'm on a diet since I prefer not to eat at McDonald's. smile And no, I'm not on a diet; I just like healthy like Midnyte said. It just cracks me up when people (Americans, specifically) think that if you're not drinking soda and pumping cheeseburgers into your mouth, you're dieting.

I think promoting a healthy size (probably a 3-10 for most women) is important as is explaining how to be that size. Not the stupid model diet of barfing and celery. It is entirely possible to be a healthy weight without barfing, starving or killing yourself at the gym. I'd like to see less of people attributing thinness to eating disorders then maybe less people would try going down those roads to get thin.



/begin rant

Of course, a little physical activity won't kill anyone either. Ok readers, when was the last time you went for a jog? Not a long one - just a mile or 10 minutes whichever comes first for you. Don't forget to take the kids if you have 'em. Now go and get 'em!

/end rant

pygmy

pygmy

Portland, OR
July 2004

DEC 31, 2004 09:00 PM

insolite said:

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown




i have read other places that glutamate in excess can cause weight loss. glutamate does lots of things but causing brain damage isn't one of them, unless you're on a constant IV of spoonfuls upon spoonfuls of the stuff. if MSG makes you fat, why do china and japan, both who consume far more msg and other EAAs [excitatory amino acids] per capita than americans do have a fraction of the obesity rates as the US? free access to calorie-dense, nutrient-light, highly-processed junk food that's marketed to people as soon as they pop out of the womb is a big part of the problem. go to bed-stuy or western kentucky and you'll find that it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to live off of fried chicken and convenience store junk food than it is to find fresh fruits or vegetables beyond a few overripe apples or bananas. sprawling development that makes it hard to walk from point a to point b makes people fatter too - compare obesity rates in manhattan and houston. then there's increasing workloads + single-parent/two-working-parent households that leave less time for preparing meals or sitting down to eat them together. portion sizes have been increasing over the last 25 years . if you put more food in front of a person, they will eat more. there are 1001 reasons that waistlines have been expanding and MSG is not one of them. neither is aspartate or lysine or any of the other amino acids, at least not in the amounts that are present in even the most extreme western diet. see http://www.snopes.com/toxins/aspartame.asp for more.



Did you read what I wrote? I said there are other reasons, but even so, NO reason alone exists within a vacuum, and I pointed out possible correlations/reciprocity with other factors. Someone else said the problem was "systemic", as if that countered what I was saying-- absolutely, that's exactly what I was explaining. Look: System-- A group of interacting, interrelated, or interdependent elements forming a complex whole. I was explaining how MSG interacts with other factors.

I guess the dozens upon dozens of people I've helped control fibromyalgia, migraines, hypoglycemia, mood swings, lose weight, etc.. by learning to recognize and limit MSG were all hypochondriacs. whatever

Also, the "fact" that Chinese and Japanese people consume more MSG is a fallacy. Maybe it was true 20 years ago, but not now and especially not in the more rural areas where people tend to be healthier. Also, I've seen this statement before, and it turned out it only referred to the listed ingredient "Monosodium glutamate", not other sources of excitatory amino acids. They tend to have a better diet all around, too, yes. Especially, they eat a lot more fish, and thus get more Taurine, which combats the effects of excitotoxicity, as I said.


free access to calorie-dense, nutrient-light, highly-processed junk food that's marketed to people as soon as they pop out of the womb is a big part of the problem.


How is this really different from what I'm saying? That kind of food is loaded with excitotoxins, and no nutrients to replenish what is lost after large dose of MSG. Are you just saying people eat it 'cause it's available? it's available because it's addictive, and because it allows food comanies to get away with using cheaper ingredients. Wild blackberries are very available, in people's back yards everywhere where I come from, but you rarely see people eating them, even though it's easier than going to the store.


glutamate does lots of things but causing brain damage isn't one of them, unless you're on a constant IV of spoonfuls upon spoonfuls of the stuff.



I wouldn't start making arbitrary blanket statements like that. Alllll of the studies I've examined that make that claim are highly flawed, and most of them were funded by Ajinomoto, the largest manufacture of MSG. Remember, just 'cause there's a study on it, doesn't make it true.

You do make some good points, and no doubt our sedentary lifestyles has a large effect on the issue, I never denied that.

Man.. I guess people are so used to hearing people praise the next new panacea, when anyone ever tries to help someone, you're automatically assumed to be completely misled, irrational, or sensationalistic. Meh.

[Edited on Dec 31, 2004 by pygmy]

dpk

dpk

Seattle, WA
November 2004

DEC 31, 2004 10:14 PM

pygmy said:
frown

It's MSG's fault. Causes lesions on the hypothalamus, and thus obesity. In labs, if they need obese mice to study, they feed them food with MSG/free glutamate.

It's so disturbing. And it's not just in junk food.

There is this commercial on right now for baby formula, going on and on about "comfort proteins" that are broken down to make it "easy for baby to digest". Yeah, that's MSG. Free glutamate. It's comforting because it acts like valium once absorbed, and completely addictive. Gotta hook 'em young. Too bad glutamate levels are absolutely crucial during early development and if you introduce tons excess of excitotoxins from an outside source (food) your neurons will grow all haywacky and stay that way. Yeah, it also crosses the placental barrier, so whatever mommy's eating will effect them in the womb, too.

So so sad frown



It's too bad one has to be so well versed in nutrition and the body to know what to eat and what to avoid. Most of this goes over my head (as far as actual understanding goes) because I'm a computer guy, rather than a biology guy. If I took the time that is necessary to understand the role of all ingredients in my food, before I eat it, I would never be able to eat.

desert_faery

desert_faery

I'm lost
December 2004

JAN 01, 2005 02:21 AM

in many of the industrialized counties, breastfeeding has become 'inconvient' for most. what we don't realize is that colostrum, the first bit of milk, contains more benefits than i can mention, but one is that it coats the digestive tract, lowering the chances of obesity later in life.

countless newborns are being fed sugar water within the first hours of life to raise their glucose levels, which sets them up for digestive difficulties.

the world average for breastfeeding is 4.5 years, brought down by the US (which nurses for an average of 6 months) and brought up by Asia, (who nurse for up to 7 years). This is another thing that may contribute to the lower rateof obesity in asia.

faithless000

faithless000

Chicago, IL
May 2003

JAN 01, 2005 10:13 AM

Wren said:
Eh, little kids are assholes, anyway.



bwahahahahaha

Mythicus

Mythicus

Lawnside, NJ
May 2004

JAN 01, 2005 11:00 AM

the kids aren't all right



i feel really bad for kids this young and already overweight. we all know how cruel kids can be to anyone that isn't what the consider normal. if i had children, i'd feel really guilty if they were seriously overweight. i just don't understand some parents today. they just give their kids whatever they want, and wonder why the end up having so many problems.

i know that raising children isn't easy, but parents have to know their role. they're the ones that should be telling the kids what to do, and not the other way around. they should be teaching the kids values, and how to lead a relatively healthy lifestyle. you don't have to eat "rabbit food" all the time to be considered healthy. personally, i love to have pizza, burgers and stuff like that(moderation is the word of the day). too much of a good thing.....you know the rest.

Sethy

Sethy

United Kingdom
April 2003

JAN 01, 2005 11:14 AM

Midnyte said:
Being on "a diet" is so not the way to fix obesity. Stopping eating at McDonald's and not shoving snack foods into one's face is the way to be healthy.

I was a size 3 most of my post pubescent life. Then in my early 20's I lived with obese people and had the normal early 20's metabolism slow down and I got plumpish.

Once I broke up with the boy with the obese family, quit smoking and dated someone who was into healthy eating I lost the weight without even thinking about it. I found when I eat right I don't crave food. I wish they would spend more time teaching people in school about their health. Sadly it is more often (this is obviously not exclusive, but statistically accurate) the lowest echelons of society who are obese and have obese kids. Unfortunately the cheap eats are also the ones worst for you. And those people who are struggling just to get by are the ones who are not able to get continued education as adults, so if they have not had good dietary education by 10th grade they may never get it.

I don't like to think of people developing eating disorders or body image problems, but being obese is more dangerous than smoking and eating poorly is after all, a choice. We have managed to accept looking down on people who smoke, I would like to see less public acceptance of obesity as well. Especially the really really obese kids. That is child abuse just as much as if I was to dope my child on Nyquil or give my 5 year old cigarettes. It sets the poor person up for a lifetime of health problems and silent discrimination.

I think promoting a healthy size (probably a 3-10 for most women) is important as is explaining how to be that size. Not the stupid model diet of barfing and celery. It is entirely possible to be a healthy weight without barfing, starving or killing yourself at the gym. I'd like to see less of people attributing thinness to eating disorders then maybe less people would try going down those roads to get thin.





love love love love love

Felidae

Felidae

SUICIDEGIRL

United Kingdom

JAN 01, 2005 06:24 PM

I think blaming the inability of families to sit down together is laughable. Mostly because the mental image of very small children being unable to balance trays on their tiny knees is fun.

schoolgirl

schoolgirl

Christmas Island
May 2003

JAN 01, 2005 07:13 PM

As a mommy myself, I find it horrifying to see children so large. my child has a huge appetite...for good foods. I refuse to feed her junk food and plop her in front of the tv. my tv doesn't work and we don't care, since she'd rather play and I'd rather it not raise her. the only time my daughter gets mcdonalds happy meals is after going to the doctor and getting shots. it's a treat. people do not take the time out to cook and spend time with their children. no fair to them. yes, I work a full time job and raise her by myself and keep up my own home. so please, it is possible to make time to boil a pot of water and put in some veggies and sit down for 30 minutes. No, I am not saying I am perfect, but I am trying my damnedest to give my daughter the same good eating habits that mine took the time out to teach me.

I remember seeing an episode of Seinfeld where jerry was apalled seeing a parent feed their child greasy fries and calling it child abuse. it's kinda funny, kinda sad. I hate seeing little kids eat so badly.

In old navy, pretty recently I saw a sign "girls now in plus girls' sizes" yeah, we all are in different shapes and sizes, but it is a little unnerving to know that there are enough overweight children to create a demand for childrens plus sized clothing.

Clairevoyance

Clairevoyance

Tallahassee, FL
July 2004

JAN 01, 2005 07:17 PM

what a fuckin surprise whatever

Trills

Trills

United Kingdom
December 2004

JAN 02, 2005 08:35 AM

No so surprising. Sign of the times I guess.

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