daevric said:
Yes, I agree with that. Which is exactly what I've been trying to get across, but I just get frustrated with the people who don't actually need it, but try to take the easy way out.

Exactly people are too ready to medicate themselves as a quick fix. I am NOT talking about serious depression, suicidal feelings, an inability to function day to day here I mean the people who are taking them because they are stressed at work or just split up with a partner or something similar which will eventually subside. I know so many people who are upset after having broken up with a boyfriend or girlfriend, who have gone to the doctor and ended up on Prozac or Seroxat.

Doctors in the UK ARE too ready to prescribe medication for mild depression without examining what is happening in the rest of a persons life, without looking at contributing factors and often without discussing any alternatives.

My friend was sent to a specialist mental health department because she was so depressed. Not once did they discuss with her the fact she had just had to terminate a pregnancy, her boyfriend had finished with her as a result and she was also on the contraceptive pill. They prescribed her some hardcore barbiturate used to control epilepsy and serious psychotic disorders. I persuaded her to delay taking them until she had had some counseling about the abortion and come off the contraceptive pill to see if the hormones were effecting her. She is now fine, she didn't need heavy duty sedatives and god knows what she would be like now if she had taken them unnecessarily

Problem is psychiatrist work on a trial and error and most of them don't even question patients that much. One could easily start a cycle of being affected by your own meds and treatment and them constantly change it and so on.

abadinfluence

Canada

July 2003

DEC 07, 2004 09:05 AM

daevric said:

demetrius_z said:

abadinfluence said:
And I'm not going into a tangent, but medication isn't the solution for helping those dealing with depression issues and suicide.

Why not?

If someone has an ear infection do you say "Anti-biotics are not the solution"?

Do you tell diabetics to that insulin is just a crutch and that they don't need it?

Medication isn't THE solution for helping those dealing with depression issues and suicide. How about that?

Medication will never cure a person--or at least, has a miniscule chance when compared to actually trying to help oneself. Used as a crutch to get well on the way to mental health, sure, it's a good place to start for some people. Far too many, however, rely on it as their means of getting better, and end up in an endless cycle of needing stronger and stronger medication to deal with problems that they could eventually solve without it.

And don't give me that "you don't know, how can you know, you can't say that unless you've been there" bullshit. I have. I dealt with it. Chemical imbalance is still there and not affecting me.

Took the words out of my mouth.

dem_z

United Kingdom

June 2004

DEC 07, 2004 09:08 AM

daevric said:
Yes, in severe depression, you can't function on your own at first.

Perhaps we're using different definitions of 'severe' and 'moderate'?

[...]For instance, do people honestly think that they can't beat a bacterial infection without antibiotics? With today's mentality, it's a wonder humanity survived long enough to make it to the 20th century
You should maybe compare the death rate for simple illnesses pre- and post- anti-biotics, eh?

mentally or physically. Are you offended by that? Fine. You pay your money for medications to justify yourself feeling miserable, and I'll continue living my life using them as a last resort, most likely in much better mental and physical condition.

You have misunderstood the thread; it is pointless continuing this discussion.

cthav

USA

August 2004

DEC 07, 2004 11:31 AM

daevric said:

demetrius_z said:

abadinfluence said:
And I'm not going into a tangent, but medication isn't the solution for helping those dealing with depression issues and suicide.

Why not?

If someone has an ear infection do you say "Anti-biotics are not the solution"?

Do you tell diabetics to that insulin is just a crutch and that they don't need it?

From the countless friends I have had who took medication for depression, every one of them said it made it worse in the long run, with plenty of side effects to boot. That's not counting the countless amount of research readily abailable pointing towards the atrocities of the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah, I would say you are right man.

cthav

USA

August 2004

DEC 07, 2004 11:57 AM

A few Articles on Clinincal Depression
http://www.newstarget.com/clinical_depression.html
How to Taper Off an Antidepressant
http://www.prozactruth.com/taper.htm
How to Detox after Medication Usage
http://www.prozactruth.com/detox.htm
Prozc Truth
http://www.prozactruth.com/
The FDA finally admits antidepressant drugs cause suicidal tendencies in children
http://www.newstarget.com/002082.html

"In 2000, 38 million prescriptions for antidepressants were written worldwide. Usage continues to skyrocket. Although selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), including Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, comprise the third most prescribed class of medication, major depressive disorder is still the second greatest cause of disability in developed countries.

Because such a large proportion of mankind is taking SSRIs, we should be asking many questions about them. A study in Iceland found that psychiatric hospitalizations increased by 4 percent and suicide trends were unchanged, despite 16 percent annual increases in SSRI usage for a 12-year period. The New York state attorney general is suing the manufacturer of Paxil for withholding evidence of increased suicidal behavior in children.

Considering how the media promote sex, it is testimony to our desperation that almost 40 million people choose a medication that suppresses their sexuality in the hope of feeling better. It's ironic that this side effect widens the gap between fantasy and people's lives. That alone is depressing.

In the short run, today's health industry economizes on treatment by prescribing SSRIs alone. But we must look at the long run. The most effective treatment for depression combines talk therapy and medication. Talk therapy alone can produce changes in the brain similar to those caused by medication, in a way that increases our humanity and without side effects. But that is not an option for most people.

We must consider the cumulative effect of millions of prescriptions taken worldwide. Today we are medicating children for manic-depression, despite the fact that many leaders, artists and thinkers throughout history exhibited symptoms of it. We are depriving the future of the potential contributions of these children. In ways that we cannot foresee we are tinkering with the future.

Even as we extol social diversity, we do not tolerate it in ourselves. Instead, we swallow medications to make our unique and unruly selves conform to the television characters we idolized when we were kindergarteners. Compared with those bland fictions, we can never measure up. We conclude we are "dysfunctional" when our lives are untidy, our thoughts contradict our feelings and we struggle. We compare our uncertain insides to their confident outsides. It is a false picture.

We have lost sight of the great internal struggles it takes to be fully human and true to self. Jeremiah railed against God, Dante wrote the Inferno and Biblical heroes promised God their firstborns. Today we would lock those men up and give them a pill.

SSRIs can be helpful when someone is truly depressed and without alternatives. But the diagnosis must be exact and therapy must connect feelings to life events and honor them as the road to wisdom. Loneliness, grief, suffering and anguish are not depression. These emotions deserve our respect, impel us to live more meaningfully and push us closer to other people. They signal the path to creativity, wisdom and God. Cutting ourselves off from their guidance impoverishes us.

For 25 years, we have sanctioned chemically altering our psyches. Even if the pharmaceutical companies had released all their test results, we would not have enough information to continue blindly. The cumulative effect of millions of prescriptions has escaped our attention.

We have always claimed that our brains and emotions make us superior to other creatures. But when a huge segment of mankind is silently and voluntarily altering those very faculties, we are cavalierly messing around with our essential humanity.

People view their unhappiness as an individual aberration. Yet because 40 million people are taking antidepressants, it is myopic to dismiss our global unhappiness as an individual problem. It is a social problem. We must ask why so many people on our small, spinning planet are so very unhappy. And then we must look for solutions that are better than little pills."

dem_z

United Kingdom

June 2004

DEC 07, 2004 12:16 PM

cthav said:
SSRIs can be helpful when someone is truly depressed

Did you read that huge chunk of text before you posted it?

I'll say this again, nice and slowly: I ... am ... only ... talking ... about ... moderate ... depression ... or ... worse.

Charley

SUICIDEGIRL

United Kingdom

DEC 07, 2004 12:32 PM

demetrius_z said:
Why not?

If someone has an ear infection do you say "Anti-biotics are not the solution"?

Do you tell diabetics to that insulin is just a crutch and that they don't need it?

I don't think that is in any kind off dispute but I think there is a difference between anxiety and depression and an ear infection.

I am aware that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain and sometimes that can only be corrected with medication. However in the case of someone with mild depression caused by external influences for example college pressure, the demise of a relationship, divorce, grief etc are drugs really necessary?

In cases of severe anxiety and panic disorders there is often a trigger usually caused by something in childhood or otherwise and it IS possible to find strategies off coping with out resorting to medication. The brain is powerful, it can be trained and then untrained again. It just isn't instant and requires time and patience.

That said I do believe that there is a genetic disposition to things such as anxiety, too many of my family members suffer from it for it to be a coincidence.

P.S My Mum cured my 10 year old sisters recent ear infection with Homeopathy, no antibiotics needed

[Edited on Dec 07, 2004 by Charley]

cthav

USA

August 2004

DEC 07, 2004 12:48 PM

demetrius_z said:

cthav said:
SSRIs can be helpful when someone is truly depressed

Did you read that huge chunk of text before you posted it?

I'll say this again, nice and slowly: I ... am ... only ... talking ... about ... moderate ... depression ... or ... worse.

Your assuming that my message was in reply to any of yours. It was not. Thus you...don't...need...to....say....anything....again....especially....not....with....lot's...of.....periods.....between.....the...........words. Did you see a quote with your name on it? No.