advise ryan re: her living situation

Do P and H have any income? Get together with R and J and come up with a deadline forr the others. I am certain they would rather have you as a roommate than two inconsiderate deadbeats. If R and J are worried that P and H won't be their friends anymore, tell them P and H aren't very good friends right now and over time hidden anger will probably make them not be friends anyway. Suggest P and H look at rooms for rent rather than their own place if they have credit problems. Label your stuff. It is silly and childish, but it beats not having it. Be adament about no smoking inside. You'd be surprised at how effective being firm can be.

you are in a situation that i have never been in, so i can't say that i know what you are going through. however, i would once again bring up the issue to R, and J to see if they have any further ideas on the situation. if not, then i would start looking for another place. something that your dog would be welcomed too. i understand that moving cost can be problematic. also the fact that you don't have any of the kitchen items that you mentioned can also cause problems. that said would not having a few kitchen items be as troublesome as the situation that you are living in at this moment. i don't wish to sound as if i know or have all the answeres, but if R, and J don't want to move-on with the issue then you may very well have to go through with looking elsewhere. it comes down to your health, and piece of mine over all the other BS. i'm sure that there are some people who would be willing to help you along the way if you should find a place of your own.

my best wishes to you sweety in this situation.

Who owns the house? R? A third party?

Edit:

Well, I'm actually about to crash. Assuming R owns the place, I would take it to R as a renter, not as a friend. That can be weird, but when you are in an unliveable situation it helps to remove friendships from the equation. R loses a chunk of rent if you leave, plus R would probably rather have you in the house than P and H, since they are causing the problems. R has to approach the situation as a landlord, not as a friend. Again, that sucks, but it's the only fair way to deal with conflict wherein some of the participants are not being reasonable.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2004 by threejane]

man this sounds like one of those complicated math problems, is there a baby crawling around the house and no one knows who the father is?

"it was D, in the library, with a candlestick!"



[Edited on Dec 04, 2004 by Snottlebocket]

That's unbelievable. How did you say it? Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're too blame for any of this, but I think it's all about coming up with the right strategy to rectify the situation. I would give it another shot. Say, "Hey, I tried to explain to you how upset I was that you have taken my stuff without replacing and asking, but you walked off. Could we please talk about this?" If that fails, then I would take a different route. But I'm curious as to how this would play out before entertaining something else, strategy-wise.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2004 by bredoteau]

Get your own place.

I will come to your house and punch someone for you.
Babe, all you gots to do is ask...
Seriously though, get a new place, have a housewarming party (ask for pots and pans and cooking stuff from your pals and fam) and don't worry about furniture and happy shite like that. You've got your doggie buddy and a place to sleep, you're good as gold.
I personally think people should make money based on how hot they are.
You'd be fabulously rich, and this garbage wouldn't be an issue.
Oh, the humanity.
Mucho love for Robo-girl from me...

It's not too hard to kick people out that aren't formally on the lease. Any time I've rented an apartment there have been rules as to who the actual tennats are. If you are not formally on the lease the management company has the right to evict you or demand that you start paying something. Of course I hope that it doesn't come to being nasty, but these people are clearly in your way and owe you something for putting up with them all this time.

I don't mean to be flippant, but it's worth the extra amount of rent to have you own place and not have to put up with this kind of shit.

That's a humdinger right there, and it explains a lot. I really think you need to get yourself super composed, and kill the motherfucker (who uses your stuff) with kindness. I really think it's worth a second shot. If that fails, we return to the war room.

even if P and H have only a small income, they are still paying less than you are. you need to help R to realize that. in essence you need to threaten him with losing your financial part of the house. haven't you said before that the place is a sty anyway? perfect time to move out. you might be able to get a place cheaper since most people move in the summer and apts. might need the tenants. xmas could be a domestic offering for you maybe?
is there any formal agreement or documentation that you signed in moving into the place?

Be patient.
It sounds to me like things are about to resolve themselves- if P&H really have found cheap housing, they're probably just waiting on a little bit of admin to be finalised and they'll be out. I don't imagine they want to be sleeping on the office floor with all their stuff in the living room either.

Okay. Well, yeah, it's a guns and butter thing, I think. If you can't come to a friendly agreement (and I agree that you should exhaust this option first), you have to start thinking about opportunity cost. You can spend less money, live with R, and be miserable; or you can spend more money, possibly alienate some of your friends (though hopefully the reasonable ones will understand), and live alone. It seems like it will come down to estimating the one-time cost of moving, plus the per-month cost of living alone somewhere else, and deciding how much you are willing to spend per month to not live with P and H.

That's the best I can do, economics! I wish you the best.

Yeah, but if you don't have the extra amount of money to do so, you simply don't have it.

My advice? Tell them to get the fuck out or you'll slit their throats when they sleep.

That is seriously uncool.

My advice?

Tell R that if those slackers aren't out by New Year's, YOU'RE going to move. (Bluff if you need to). Then he'd be out two rent payments instead of one (even though he should be getting two anyway).

The first question you need to answer, "Is R's house the ideal place for me to live minus the presence of P and H." If it's not, there is no reason to wait out this mess. Look for a good situation for you and your dog and don't look back. Borrow a truck and all of the free hands you can find and get out.

If you want to stay, it might be time for You and R to take P & H out for lunch, or at least to some place where you can all talk about the state of the place with out someone walking away [the living room might work].

Talk to R. first [R the landlord, not your buddy]. It sounds like you are a little frustrated by the indeterminite nature of P & H 's stay. If P & H are more than temporary [even a couple of weeks] they need to move their stuff into the extra room and live like civilised people. If you're going to have more roommates than you signed up for, maybe R should reduce your rent. If P & H really are temporary, an end date is not an unreasonable thing to ask for, preferably one that is very soon [though moving during the holdiay is a bear]. DriveLikeJehu is right, P & H are taking advantage of R's goodwill. Letting things slide as they are will only build tensions between all of you.

Be specific when you talk to these guys. Everything you're asking for is reasonable, make sure it sounds that way when you talk to them. I can't imagine that this is an ideal living situation for P & H either.

Explain to P & H that you need to show up to work clean and on time. Booking into the bathroom when Ryan's alarm goes off in the morning is unsporting at the very least. Work out a schedule for everyone's morning use of the bathroom if need be. If P & H do not have somewhere to be in the morning, they can damn well shower after you are gone [be civil - this is a make nice meeting].

"This is a nice house. We don't use the bathroom as an ashtray. In fact, we don't smoke in the bathroom. The smoke smells disgusting. Smoke outside or in the room that we let you sleep in. In fact, it would be great if we could get some of your stuff out of the living room and into that room [or into the closets/basements of any of your other friends in town - we would really like our living room back]."

"I understand that you are going through a rough patch, but I'm on a budget. As much as I would like to, I just can't feed you. Please don't eat my food. Divide the kitchen cabinets and the refridgerator and label everything if you have to. If you liked/trusted these people [P & H I mean], I might suggest dividing the groceries equally and cooking meals together. It kind of sounds like you might be past that."

You know, that sort of thing. I guess the last bit of advice would be don't make any threats [the whole 'it's them or me' speach] that you are not prepared to act on. I've made that mistake.

I hope that helps. Sorry about the length. Drama at home sucks. good luck.



[Edited on Dec 03, 2004 by obd]

Ryan, it wasn't answered... rent contract or no rent contract?

If you have a lease/rent agreement...read it, find out why P and H should not be a part of that household. Keep it business, but on the same, but other front, keep it friendly, but firm. Address them directly first. Let them be clear that you are paying for the house , your groceries, etc, and that you don't expect your shit to be smelling like ass or gone at the end of the day!


Basically summarizing everything that everyone else has said, minus the kill people stuff and such. While moving out should be the last option, and the last threat to use, it is something that you should decide whether or not it is feasible. Be prepared, in the end to use it. You are a smart cookie, you like to have all your ducks in a row, and everything to be on a schedule. For this situation, make sure you bend... maybe a lot. Money is nothing to sneeze at, and it doesn't always come easy. Expect that the end result is you staying there, and you will have your way through negotiation.

Start small, approach P and H about something small... like the cigarettes. Approach them directly and don't go through R. Then, after having a conversation, follow up with R. Let him know what is said. Don't go ranting, he will simply pass it on to them. Your goal should be to have an amicable discussion, not to be friendly, then rat them out. Let them understand that you are a flexible woman. You don't expect EVERYTHING to go your way, but you need some things to happen so that you can show up for work everyday clean and ready!

I can tell you more, but I think a lot of other people will too. Good luck and let me know how it turns out!

.

This is the best advise in my opinion, Thats shity of them to pull this on you, your in a jamb becouse of them. thats not cool.

Ryan, you have gotten alot of good advice. I really can't think of any additional advice as how to handle the situation but it sounds like you are getting royally hosed. I have haved lived in a bunch of small one room effeciency or lofts (really small). It kinda sucks but for me it was all about privacy and peace of mind. I had to share space with people i could not stand when i was in the military and vowed to myself that i would not put up with that again.

Best wishes and good luck with it.

This may seem flippant but really, life is too short for this kind of bullshit. Ask yourself how much money your peace of mind is worth.

Bounce.

The rental agreement also says nothing about having to share with those other people who are depriving you of the use of your home and who are not paying rent.

Would you mind them being there if you were paying two thirds less rent? Is there a way you could negotiate a rent reduction while they're still staying there?

People taking the piss by using stuff without asking when they're living there for cheap is very annoying.