NEWS: Spielberg Swindles Another Witless Sap

That's something - over-politicising and trashing a film no one has seen yet before the first post.

OK, yea, I can agree on the horrid hallway scene was pretty bad CG looking, and yes, it could have easily been a simple miniature shot, BUT....here's a point where the CG nature can be argued as a good thing. Look at the deleted scenes from Ep 2. That originally was just ObiWan and Mace talking, with dialouge regarding his trip to Kamino, set in a Jedi Starfighter hangar where they also made mention of those.....so, a little nip and tuck of the dialouge allowed it to include Yoda and change the setting, drastically altering the scene/plot direction. It's a useful tool.

And check into that Lars thing, it's a real set, unless all the behind the scenes footage and photos were CG'd also.

I think the underlying issue is that people need a scapegoat, and CG provides it. We can easily pretend bad effects, bad movies, big budget driven commercial summer blockbusters didn't exist before the digital era. People are disillusioned in particular with the Star Wars movies and are so desperate to accept/like the stilted dialouge and bland direction that the only obvious "reason" must be the effects. The originals went for as many effects as possible too, and Jar jar....is the ultimate whipping boy. People simply dont like him-you'd be crazy to like him-but they can't accept the fact that he's simply a shitty character, it's the effect's fault somehow. People will gripe that he's completely CG "just to show off effects", and that its "unneccesary"....these are the same people, of course, who LOVE Gollum, who is also unneccesarily computer generated-difference being, he's not irritating. Noone seems to complain about the muppet Yoda, either, even though he exists for the same reason Jarjar does:to show off special effects. It was unneccesary to make Yoda only realized through effects, why couldn't he just be a short green human? When Empire was released, Lucas said the same thing about Yoda he said about JarJar:to push the limits of characterizing a special effect, and make them a real character in a real world. Again, like Gollum, people dont complain about this "unneccesary efffect" "because he can" because Yoda isn't irritating. Mostly.

I tell you what IS unneccesarily and ridiculously wasteful use of CG:the stormtroopers in Ep2 and 3......entirely computer generated. FOR EVERY SHOT. WHY?! WHY!? Huge scenes, yea, but close ups?! Wouldnt a REAL plastic suit be cheaper!?

It's the execution, dude. There's a few things that make what WETA is doing better than ILM:

1) Better character design. The characters have a more tactile feel. Whether this is a technical problem or just a design issue is open to question.
2) Better character animation. The nuance in Gollum's movements in comparison to anything ILM is clear - he's better animated. Motion capture of a good actor combined with the fine tuning of good animators makes a better product.
3) Better lighting rendition. WETAs stuff looks more real due to the way they light their scenes - there's something about ILM's stuff that doesn't look "natural". That's the main difference between looking at CG versus stuff shot on film - reproducing real reflections, specularity, grimy-ness (for lack of a better word) in a computer is a monumental task, and each effects house has to make tradeoffs between generating something profitably and generating something that "looks right". I don't know if it's software, the time the put into it or what - but WETA's stuff has a much more real feel to it - a big part of that is the fact that most of the sets are either real or miniature, so less reliance is given on CG in general. If only the characters are CG, but the set is real, you're going to notice the almost subliminal differences in lighting much less.

Face it, ILM is in the dark ages of digital now - everyone else is kicking their ass.

Hey, for episode I, i blames everything but the CGI. It's just in episode 2, the acting writing, and directing got even worse, and the CGI got waaaaaay more prevalent, your example of the clone troopers being a prime example. Episode II is proof that Lucas has gone insane. My source for the Lars farm thing was IMDb trivia:

NOW? They've been there since the late 90's, I'd say.

1) I would say both. I would say presentation more than anything else.

2)Absolutely-again, as all effects should be, it's a combination of different techniques to throw the illusion. Dexter (the Ep2 cook) looked and moved great, and the Storm Troopers were pretty convincing in a large number of the shots.

3) I would debate that a big part of WETA's effects work is due to the fact that much of the movie(s) is in the darkness, making it easier to hide, and the otherworldly coloring as well. More than anything, I'd say it's the constant changing of HOW the elements are blended together, instead of "generic stiff model shot" seperated by "over emphasised computer generated swooping shot".

IMDB data is submitted by users, so it's not an absolute authority. If I werent so lazy, I'd dig around the Star Wars site and find the on set pics from the Lars homestead.

[Edited on Dec 01, 2004 by eyeofcolossus]

Easier to hide what? Seams? The level of CG is so far beyond those considerations I'm not sure why you even brought it up earlier. The biggest factor is the level of detail in their models and the way the light interacts in their renders. There are plenty of full-light CG shots in the LOTR stuff, so this "hiding in the darkness" is just missing the point, imo.

The combination of real and CG elements is precisely the situation where you can fuck up and make the two different elements look unnaturally shoved together. This is particularly true of lighting, texture and generally how light bounces (or doesn't bounce) off CG elements in comparison to conventional objects. That LOTR blends this together so well is just further testament to the talent at WETA.

back to the topic-
How did Spielberg "swindle" anyone?Why is the company paying for the film "witless"? Stupid headline.

Spielberg has literally made Hollywood studios BILLIONS of dollars. The guy is a money making machine.

Plus, he made JAWS. Which rules. So fuck you for not liking him.

The entire film was digitally graded. I wish more films would use that as it gives the films a timeless quality and because of it some of the shots look ripped from Titian Titian frescoes. I get goosebumps every damn time I watch the scene in Two Towers where Gandalf and the Roheran charge down the hill into the orcs. It's too gorgeous to fucking nitpick apart.

As far as seams and rubbery CG, what the hell are you watching these films on? The only problem I've ever run into while viewing these is playing the Ents dam busting scene on a line doubling DVD player hooked up to an HDTV. It was too clear and actually ruined the digital grading that gave the films such a lush feel.

I have no idea who you're quoting here or what your point is. You have it out for Muppets, CG characters, and superfluous effects shots that have nothing to do with moving the story along? You just hate Episode I don't you?


The point is, and this should matter above all else, I never hear the average moviegoer complaining about the effects in the LOTR films. You can credit Weta's flawless execution or the viewer being distracted by the engrossing story.

You sir, get it.

Oh, I believe you, but admit it, that IMDb story wasn't too hard to believe.

Hear hear. Worst headline in a while.

Admitted and agreed.