i don't think 'toy story 2' garnered reactions like this:

"The Incredibles is the year's best movie so far, and by far; it's hard to see what might still come along to surpass it. Pixar's latest animated feature ... heaps delight on delight until you think you can not take any more without a pleasure break."

joe morgenstern, wall street journal

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH

April 2004

NOV 07, 2004 10:35 PM

From Wikipedia:

After witnessing the box office failures of some of its recent animated films and the stellar successes of computer-animated films from Pixar, Disney has decided to shift its production from "traditional" hand-drawn animated films (which in recent years have incorporated much work done on computer) entirely to computer-animated films. The last traditionally-animated film produced by Disney was Home on the Range. Its first computer-animated film will be Chicken Little. Disney has fallen under much criticism for this change in direction, especially as fans see the strength of a movie as its plot and its characters and not as the technology used to make it. Additionally, by laying off all of its hand-drawn animation staff, Disney has released into the job market a large number of skilled artists who have a grudge against their former company and who could be very attractive to Disney's competitors. Disney is becoming a direct competitor to Pixar in a market dominated by the latter. Disney has failed to renew its contract with Pixar to release Pixar's films under the Disney name, an arrangement which had been extremely profitable to Disney and whose termination means that Pixar is now free to pair up with a competing studio.

Jeff_Fries

Humptulips, WA

September 2003

NOV 07, 2004 11:00 PM

TedKoppel said:

AceTracer said:

TedKoppel said:
Also, John Lasseter is extremely talented and all, but Brad Bird is a better director

Based on what? His only other movie is The Iron Giant. Compare that to Toy Story, A Bug's Life, and Toy Story 2. It's because of Lasseter that this is even a genre.

Based on the quality of the direction in his two movies. Iron Giant was a feat that is nothing short of stunning without even taking into account that he was working in a studio that was being shut down while he was making the movie. And I thought that the direction in The Incredibles was far superior to anything Pixar has done before. In previous movies, in general the camera was generally invisible. (Generally. There are a few notable exceptions, like in Monsters Inc. when the monsters see a sock on the one guy's back. There is a shot during the scramble for the button that does a really neat job of simulating a running shot on a handheld camera. Just for one example.)

Let me be clear, here. John Lasseter is a fucking genius. I love animation of all kinds, and think he has helped to found what has to be one of the greatest studios of any kind, as well as bringing 3D animation to the masses. In the film history books, his name will deservedly be mentioned as a pioneer of animation. Aside from all of that, he is a very good director of animation. I just don't think the direction in any of his three movies matches either The Iron Giant or The Incredibles. I am speaking very technically here, and not talking about the overall quality of the film at all. I was simply stunned by a number of shots and sequences in The Incredibles, not only in the creativity of the scenes, but the shots and angles that were chosen to show them. The merging of computer and hand-drawn animation in The Iron Giant was incredible and I don't think it's ever been done any better than in that movie.

I'll post my thoughts about the art direction later, but my friend is here. Yes, I get stupidly excited about movies. Fucking bite me.

My problem is that I find Bird comes up with brilliant visual or conceptual material but doesn't know how to pace it. I liked The Iron Giant, but I kept waiting for it to sweep me off my feet and it never did. The animation was so good, but the rest felt kind of clunky and rushed; the bumbling detective suddenly becomes an evil villian, for instance. Based on Giant and this new movie I think Bird rushes and doesn't emphasize enough, and it subtly undermines everything from the effectiveness of the plot to the believability of the characters to whether the dialogue sounds like actual dialogue. The great action sequences in The Incredibles would have been much better if they had a more logical pace (I could bearly figure out what was going on when they were surrounded by those flying things). I felt like I was supposed to accept that the movie was fun and inventive and breathtaking, rather than having fun or being amazed or losing my breath. Brad Bird is to me a great animator with ok film sense.

I think Lasseter is the exact opposite. The chase scene in Toy Story is one of my favorites, not because it has a billion ideas, but because one development grows out of another naturally and effectively; in animated movies especially, a chase scene can run the risk of throwing too many ideas in and not feeling solid. The dialogue and character development in that one was just as straightforward and perfunctory, but the rest of the film was so ingenious, moment to moment (the army men, the 'YO' truck), that you saw the story for it's insights rather than recognize it was saying nothing new.

Neither of them is perfect, but I think Lasseter a more effective filmmaker.

[Edited on Nov 08, 2004 by Jeff_Fries]

acetracer

Hollywood, FL

January 2004

NOV 07, 2004 11:40 PM

Ok, I retract what I said. The Incredibles is the greatest movie ever made and everybody thinks so.

SoEffinHappy

Philadelphia, PA

April 2003

NOV 08, 2004 12:02 AM

AceTracer said:
Ok, I retract what I said. The Incredibles is the greatest movie ever made and everybody thinks so.

Damn skippy it is.

Gwendolyn

SUICIDEGIRL

Indiana, USA

NOV 08, 2004 12:27 AM

Wow, you guys are arguing over animated movies now.

Anyhow, that movie better be a million times better than the trailer, because LORD that's a crappy trailer.

A_White_Pony

Lake Forest, CA

March 2003

NOV 08, 2004 12:31 AM

I went to "The Incredibles" merely to see the "Episode III" trailer then bailed to go see "SAW" ...fucking great movie!!!!. Might actually check the Incredibles out someday on cable or dvd.