Feminism & Talkin' Shit

What do people usually say about famous guys?

kind of depends i think. probably more so than men.
but for example when condoleeza rice was testifying for the 9/11 comission i didnt really hear anyhting about her looks, because she isnt unattractive. But take paula jones or someone and comments about appearences are going to be much more common.
i guess its basically the same, except (to generalize) women are held to a higher standard than men
my 2 cents

[did you have any specific case in mind?]

[Edited on Jul 03, 2004 by DrStinkypants]

...or when they used to be handsome, and let themselves go to shit. (Alec Baldwin?)

It's hard to point to specifics, but it seems telling that the most famous/powerful/influential women seem to come in for the harshest criticism that has nothing to do with anything they've actually done, but with a perception of their appearance and personality, their parenting skills, their relationships, and their sexual orientation.

It's also telling that there have been about 10,000 threads about Courtney Love's drug problems, irresponsible motherhood, etc, but I've yet to see one negative comment here about Jeff Tweedy, the singer of Wilco, who is married and the father of two, about his recent struggles with drugs.

Who gets criticized? Madonna, Hillary Clinton, Courtney Love, Brody..
all women with successful careers, but also strong opinions and iconoclastic personalities. Rarely does anyone criticize their actual work, they just call them bitchy, shrill, or subtly imply that they may be lesbians (as if that's an insult, anyway). Much easier to call Hillary Clinton a bitch than to talk about what she's actually accomplished, which is quite a lot. Madonna gets called a whore, but she's the sole woman ever to occupy the upper stratosphere of fame -- where even famous people would whisper, as she enters a room, "Hey, that's Madonna." That sort of success doesn't happen by accident, nor by cheating in some way.

[Edited on Jul 03, 2004 by Keith]

I bet Johnny Depp will look like Keith Richards some day.

Women get judged on their looks more than men do, I agree.

Complicated reasons for why that may be. I'm not really sure that I'm sure why...

I remember when the part of Linda Tripp on Saturday Night Live was played by John Goodman with a false nose. Also there was Will Ferrell playing Janet Reno...

I think a disproportionate number of women are famous solely for their looks. To me it follows that if all a women has going for her is her appearance, than most criticisms of her will be based around her attractiveness. So, I don’t think that is sexist. What ever mechanism makes it so that most women are famous for their looks, is deeply sexist.

Do people talk about Gloria Steinem’s appearance for instance? Even thought I think she is very pretty, at least back in the day.

I think insults are stupid. When people attack a person and not the idea they are instantaneously transported to elementary school.

Whatever is obvious and damaging is the target, whether it is race, gender, or stereotype.

Absolutely, you have a point in society’s emphasis on female appearance and when the mud starts’ flying in the playground appearance is attacked first, because what can you say back? “I am pretty, I am.”

I always just stare back and think, yep that was stupid.

well, the fact that there are pictures of naked girls splashed all over the site does set the tone for the sexualization of women wouldn't you say?

What I find offensive: women claiming feminism only to promote media glitzed girl roles... ie. The Spice Girls, girl power my ass. They just re-enforced the idea that women are judged solely on their looks and not their ideas. Not to mention the Brittany Spears and Christina Agularias (how ever you spell her name) these are the feminist role models a generation of women are basing their feminist standards on because the media calls them powerful influential women!!!

SNL is a comedy show. they make fun of everyone's appearance. male celebrities aren't spared from parody. i don't really think that those kinds of jokes are meant to be interpreted as suggestions that the person is somehow "not enough" or undeserving of their success.

I think a lot of the time women (and men also) are judged by their appearance because it's somthing easier to draw a conclusion on. If those women have a message it would take more effort for the avg. citizen to find out what the message is (reading the article) than to just look at her picture.

Perhaps talking about someone's appearance is an easier way to say you were "discussing" someone and sound like you are into the current events, which is a laugh.


I do think that men and women should not be judged based on their gender, afterall discriminating because of gender is as ridiculous as being racist. I guess by your definition, Clara, I would be a feminist. I might have done it before but I think I do it more with males. Which is terrible, yes, I know. For example, if someone mentions David Beckham I'll immediately think "he's hot" but I've never watched him play nor do I know any statistics of his game. I don't know if that's is the kind of thing you were talking about or not, but I think the same thing that happens to women also happens to men.

Thats the thread i figured sparked this. In that thread i think it was a little different because the topic was something like "celebrity A is good looking", and then it devolves into a "yes she is/no she isnt" argument. What i mean is, sexual attraction was originally the topic of the thread, it wasnt diverted from something else.
Now, why it was the topic, instead of her talent is something else to think about. Also, i do see a lot more "female celebrity A is hot" threads than "male celebrity A is hot" threads, which is sort of interesting. I know we are all here for the pretty girls, but if i remember correctly the majority of members are female.

women are sexualized in every medium because they are sexualized in society. so, i dont disagree there. i just think that to expect otherwise on a porn site may be a little unrealistic. not that that serves to justify it, because i don't agree with it at all. but, i am not surprised.

by sexualize you mean that we are making them sexual where they otherwise wouldnt be?
All people are sexual arent they?

Unfortunately, I think looks is a major part of the music industry too. A lot of pop musicians have to have the right "look" if they want to succeed.

Thats a good point.
I dont know what it is about courtney love and SG. i dont think there has been a courtney love thread that has gotten past the first page without something terrible being written about her.
i guess i would have to say that its due to 1) its the easiest thing to say about someone (human nature i guess) and 2) women are sort of expected to be good looking, more so than men