Kissing Jessica Stein

So i finally saw this movie and very much enjoyed it.

"Kissing Jessica Stein" offers an amusing look at the late twenties career and singleton crisis: bad dates and bad jobs. Funny, mature entertainment. Ms. Stein's mother steals every scene she is in. Did I mention the hot virgin lesbians?

I love that movie so much too... I bought it!

No offense but...I found the movie deplorable.

I was really mad at how the movie ended, how all of a sudden Jessica wasn't a lesbian. It kind of sent the message that "all a woman needs is a good dicking." I was also mad that at the end, her ex, who was such an ass to her for the whole movie, all of a sudden wooed her. It was kind of like saying "See? All a lesbian needs is a man, even the worst possible man will be the cure."

I just think the movie would have been better if Jessica would have ended up with a woman somehow...I know the movie offended all of my lesbian friends too.

Other than that, I think the movie is very funny and cute...the message just needs to be tweaked. I liked it up until the end.

Amen to that. I'm glad that you agree, Morgan. I didn't want to sound like the bitter angry bitchdyke a la the bi thread. lol.

Morgan and Bionicfemme make valid points about the general media portrayal of lesbianism. The fact that they are not specifically true of "Kissing Jessica Stein" made me question repeatedly whether we were even commenting on the same movie. Perhaps they were thinking of Chasing Amy or Mulholland Drive.

Their opinions are almost media cliches by now, but grinding axes is fun, so I don't begrudge them the opportunity to do a little sharpening. I have a whole toolshed full myself which I visit regularly. I am going to give their posts a light fisking, however, so that others who haven't seen the movie aren't misinformed.

Bionicfemme said:
No offense but...I found the movie deplorable.

I was really mad at how the movie ended, how all of a sudden Jessica wasn't a lesbian.

At the end of the movie Jessica was dumped by her girlfriend because she would never have sex with her. Jessica's hesitance and ongoing reluctance to physical intimacy make it clear that she is never a confirmed lesbian. This movie could have been titled "The Accidental Lesbian".

It kind of sent the message that "all a woman needs is a good dicking."

Jessica never gets a good dicking. Helen gets three good dickings before becoming and remaining a lesbian, so, if anything, the message is the exact opposite.

I was also mad that at the end, her ex, who was such an ass to her for the whole movie, all of a sudden wooed her. It was kind of like saying "See? All a lesbian needs is a man, even the worst possible man will be the cure."

If the writers had intended to provide the audience with the simplistic solution suggested they would have shown the two of them back together in each other's arms and happy. That would have maximized the "feel good" payoff. They didn't. They intentionally left the ending open. Their contact was accidental and their exchange platonic. It might lead to more later or Jessica might find another Rilke(sp?)-loving lesbian.

I just think the movie would have been better if Jessica would have ended up with a woman somehow...I know the movie offended all of my lesbian friends too.

Other than that, I think the movie is very funny and cute...the message just needs to be tweaked. I liked it up until the end.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. The movie doesn't provide a happy ending for heterosexuals or homosexuals. If you are a lesbian who will be dissatisfied with an ending that doesn't result in lifelong lesbianism no matter how late in life or unconvincing the conversion is this is not the movie for you.

Dwelling on Jessica's failure to see the light misses the point. Jessica is annoying and lacking in passion. Converting her wasn't worth the toaster. By the end I was rooting that she would continue to play for the other team. Helen is very hot and very beautiful. And even better, she stays lesbian despite receiving several good dickings.

Morgan said:
Yeah, that movie offended the hell out of me, as a queer girl.

First of all, it's got that whole "all lesbians are hot femmes, and this is exactly how they have sex, isn't it nice, boys?" thing.

As stated, Jessica is about as hot as dead mackerel. And we never do see how they have sex, dammit, exactly or otherwise.

It did not feel real at all, it just felt like it was there to titallite.

No nudity. No onscreen lesbian sex. Awkward, belabored attempts at rounding first base. It felt like it was there to frustrate.

And yes, the whole all she really needed was a man ending.

What movie did I end up watching? I am beginning to suspect someone switched dvds on me at the rental store.

That guy was an asshole. Maybe if she had ended up with a NICE guy...though I still would have been pissed off.

Perhaps it won't surprise you that of Helen, Jessica and her ex, I found his story the most interesting despite being only hinted at. He is an asshole. Or more precisely, he goes through a period of being an asshole. Of the three, his story has the highest arc, (and "if it don't got that schwing then it don't mean a thing du wop du wop du wop du wop"). Although we don't see it until later, the searing, insightful critical analysis of Jessica that he makes is what happens when talent and intelligence fester. (His analysis also serves as a deft piece of exposition by the film's writer.)

We learn that his prodigious talent was evident in college and that he intended to become a significant writer. This is the period during which Jessica and he dated, and it is safe to assume that he wasn't the bitter asshole then that he becomes while squandering his talent as Jessica's boss at the newspaper. Jessica assists his breakthrough and renewed commitment to his goals. He is a changed man at the time of their eventual rapprochement at the film's end.

It was a lesbian movie for men or people who don't like lesbians, i felt.

It is hard to understand a movie without nudity or on-scene lesbian sex as a lesbian movie for men. Men are shown as bad dates or bad bosses in this movie. This is a movie about women. It is about their relationships with each other and with men and their frustrations with men and love and career. This is clearly not a guy movie. This is a movie for women, but perhaps not for dogmatic lesbian women.

I have enjoyed past posts by both of you, Bionicfemme and Morgan. I can only hope that the squandering of my lesser talents on this less than insightful analysis makes me less of an asshole than Jessica's ex. I would appreciate any recommendations that either of you can offer on lesbian movies for lesbians.

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[Edited on Oct 15, 2002 by crash]

I do recommend "Boys don't cry." It portrays lesbianism as it really is, and although the living protagonist in the end marries a man, the plot is much less artificial than "Kissing Jessica Stein" because it is a true story.

I thought it was kinda weak. like, a movie about lesbians that was made for primetime tv or some shit.

Whoooooo hoooooo! I'm going to go round up my frat brothers and run down to the theater to see some hot girl on girl action.


just kidding.

I thought that movie was great. I have to second the praise of the woman who played Jessica's mother. Her performance was stellar.

To say that this movie is suggesting that Lesbianism does not work or is no substitution for a hetero relationship is wrong in my opinion. It was a realistic story, SOMETIMES Lesbianism is not for somebody, just as SOMETIMES it is. It was not making any statement that it Lesbianism does not work in general. To criticize this movie in that way implies the notion that if this were a "real" movie about the topic, Jessica would have stayed gay.

Also I thought this this movie did an excellent job of NOT fetishising Lesbian Sex. Almost all the sexuality is implied and serves the plot, not voyeurism...its not like this movie was "Bound" or "Mulholland Drive"....or say a 2-girl set on this site

Alright, that was the second time someone's brought up Mulholland Dr. here. What's the problem with that movie? It's a fookin' great film. It's about a jilted lover that goes nuts, pays to have her lover killed, and then kills herself. So the jilter and the jiltee both happen to be female. So what?

Nothing's wrong with it.

Mullholland is on my favorites list on my profile and I own it and LOVE it, I just thought that the lesbian sex scenes were a bit gratuitous (not that I mind gratuitous lesbian sex scenes or anything). I was just comparing the use of sex in Muholland vs. Jessica Stein to react to the notion that Jessica Stein was exploiting lesbian sex.

ditto Jorganic's comment re: Mulholland Drive. I own it as well.

Oh, o-kay. Nevermind. I was gettin' all defensive for poor mr. lynch. I don't really think the scene's were particularly gratuitous and I think the scene where she's masturbating and crying is really fookin' creepy and good. But anyway, as long as we're not all dismissing a really good film on the basis that the love scenes weren't "real lesbian". Real lesbian sex doesn't ever involve me so I'm not particularly interested in it.

Anyway, I'm sorry. This is a kissing jessica stein thread and I haven't seen that movie so I'm going to shut up now.

Not that it makes a difference at allllll, but the director Charles Wormfeld (a friend of mine and one of the sweetest people you will ever meet) is quite gay. I think he understands the 'issues' at hand quite well. But lets not forget that the two lead females (not gay) wrote the screenplay.

Personally, I think this film deals with the issues at hand quite well for being a soft romantic comedy. I thought the movie was a sweet tale and portrayed women who luv other women in a wonderful light. But then again, I'm not a lesbian. Although I did like 'All Over Me' *blush*

i didn't bother to see this movie when it came out because i thought i would hate the way it portryed girl-girl relationships and that it would be heterosexist garbage (like chasing amy, which i found quite offensive).
i just watched it.
much to my suprise, i really enjoyed it.
i thought that i delt with complex relationships in a really wonderful way, and i found something in almost all of the characters that i could identify with. my only complaint was that it used the word "lesbian" to describe a relationship between two bisexual women. which is a pretty big complaint, but once i got over that, i really enjoyed the movie. i think a lot of the problem was the way in which the press portrayed the movie. i thought it was going to be "oh, men are so terrible, look what this poor girl had to do-end up with another girl". instead i saw it as the story of a woman who finally took a chance on something different, found real happiness, got dumped because she had some intamacy issues, but emerged with a brighter outlook, and a better sense of who she was. which isn't so bad.

I'm curious, what category would girls consider a movie like "Lost and Delirious" fall into. I just saw it on HoBO and I liked it, but as a guy, I don't know if its because it could fall into a male fantasy movie (all girl's school) or good movie with a kinda sad ending. Opinions?

one of my favorite movies is kissing jessica stein...yes it is upsetting that she ends up with men again, but some girls are like that...C'mon like you couldnt see it coming!? anyway, i agree it is a bit cheesey and the girls are hot femmes again, but we have to kinda take what we can get. Geez it was a major motion picture and did help get the straight world to look at queer relationships a little more normal. i think the role of helen (jessica's gf) is a great char...the frustration of dating confused straight girls! P anyway i also liked the way the boys gave a little insite to the phobias we have in the gay community and how scared we get when people come onto our turf too quick ie: when helen decides to "try something new"

Yah, I love this movie.

Wasn't the point of this movie that you can't pretend to be gay if you're not and that you can't pretend to be straight if you're not either?