NEWS: Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome

Umm, I think I understand the point entirey. In the case of China, many people in mainland China are forced to work in sweatshops. And many have had their lives/families destroyed because of the cultural revolution. And others have died in mass killings for no reason other than politically opposing the state. Ditto for Russia--learn about the Gulags--and in Vietnam and the whole North/South division.

True these cultures did not have their culture SPECIFICALLY decimated by slavery. But in China, Russia, Vietnam, Cambodia and North Korea people have indeed have had their lives decimated by destructive forces.

I'm not that old, but my mom jumped off a train headed to Auschwitz when she was about 14 or 15. Does the fact that she had to live through that hell on earth affect who I am? Absolutely! But do I ever go around beating and killing people blamed on that experience? No way. There comes a point where a human has to take responsibility for their own actions. And while I don't think slavery was a good thing in anyway--like I really have to explain that--I'm getting a little sick and tired for the issue of slavery being brought up to explain every problem in the African American community today. There comes a point where such explanations come off as crying wolf. And many times, I do think that people exaggerate their supposed cultural trama to cover up problems in their own behavior.

I knew a Vietnamese kid in elementary school whose family was hunted down--with some members of the family being murdered or gone missing--who was academically amazing and one of the nicest most trusting people I have ever met. Why is it that he went through hell on earth but found a path to a better life while others blame their personal abuse issues on their pain?

its easier for people to blame thier mistakes on others then for them to take credit for their own misdeeds.

Why is it that you can't accept that your old classmate was extremely lucky to be able to handle that shit the way he did and that some other people simply can't deal? Do you think we're all cookie-cutter clones who simply must process information and experiences the exact same way that you do or are you too busy suppressing your own feelings to have any sympathy for others?

It's also easier to blame people for their own misfortune than it is to recognize the fact that we aren't in complete control of our lives and situations and that our environment and the environments of those who affect us may have some causal effects on behavior.

Good point. I don't mean to say that this guy should be acquitted and released back into society; he's clearly disturbed to a dangerous degree. I also don't mean to say that all descendents of slaves must be afflicted by this condition, much like how not all XYY people are violent.

My point is that human beings are funny little creatures and we can do some pretty crazy shit depending on which neurons are firing at what time. Some people aren't smart enough or stable enough or rich enough or whatever enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and they will occasionally point towards misfortunes that others have overcome to justify their own behavior.

Does the fact that others have overcome similar misfortune make these statments bullshit? Of course not; we all handle the same things differently (some more than others).

Not really, just that I wouldn't know what it meant if I hadn't just had to take a class about it. In a year or so, I probably won't remember what it means.

While I do not have any statistics readilly available, I'm quite confident that the number of people who commit such crimes and blame their past are very small while others who don't do such things outnumber that small amount of people.

In World War II tons of people's lives were destroyed and decimated. I could go back home to Poland and see where my parents grew up. But guess what? It was bombed into oblivion and the world that once existed is gone forever.

While traumatic, my parents and tons of other people moved on with their lives and have been able to create new lives without too much issue. It happens all the time. Walk down any street and you'll find tons of people who come from lives of pain and oppression who have found ways to deal with their past to create a better future.

Where do you get the idea that I don't have sympathy for others? Maybe you don't get it, but I do feel sympathy for the pain others feel in their lives. And in my personal case I fee genuine empathy for those who have had oppressed lives.

But that sympathy ends the second that person beats and kills someone else and blames that act on their "bad background". Using the excuse of slavery to explain the brutal beating of your own child is simply bullshit.

your shitting me right? do u not think that this leave everything wide open for genetic memory?

[Edited on Jun 01, 2004 2:30PM]

Bleh

[Edited on Jun 01, 2004 3:27PM]

royaljack I follow you. And I should probably be more direct in saying that I do NOT condone using past injustice as an excuse and I hope it doesn't work in the trial. (It was only rejected as grounds to throw out the trial; it can still be used as a defense.)

I'm just saying let's not treat the issue too lightly here. Even the survivors of the Gulag and so forth kept their culture. They kept their language, values, traditions, etc. The answer isn't letting people off the hook. Far from it. But we need to recognize that systemic racism from the world-shattering trauma of slavery to lesser discrimination and racism today will continue to make problems for us. I don't agree with this man's argument of it as an inherited or psychological condition, though. It's far more sociological.

I’m not sure which to be more offended by, the fact that it’s making an excuse for murdering your son, or that it is so blatantly racist in calling all blacks “self-destructive, violent or aggressive”.

Ya know I just dont know.

But on a postive note...

Wooo fucking Hooo!!!

I was just offered a job as a auto grafix consultant (I airbrush when they need me, and I work 3-5 hours per day)!!!!!!!!!!!

It only pays $20-$35 dollers an hour (depending on the job). But ya know, I'm ok with that. Even if it's not full time, I'm doing what I want.

Nothin but love for everbody!

i think it'd be more believable if he himself was beaten all throughout his childhood, giving him the tendency to be violent. i don't even have a college degree but the excuse that because his ancestors were hurt, he had inherited that build-up rage.. well that doesn't make sense. so should we all be wary of black people whose family tree can be traced back to american slaves, because they all have that rage gene?

you kill your kid, you have problems. blame your parents for giving you mental disorders, thats fine. don't blame people you didn't even know for giving you an anger problem.

That has to be the most lame excuse ever presented in a courtroom..ranks up there with McDonald's made me fat
and the guy in Arizona who claimed he was sleepwalking when he killed his wife.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Do you think life in the Soviet countries was the same after Communism took over as prior to that happening except for a new person being in charge? The reason people were rounded up, sent to work camps, homes destroyed and lives destroyed was specifically to strip them of their culture. The Killing Fields in Cambodia. The work camps in the U.S.S.R. The death camps in Nazi Germany and controlled countries. All created for one thing. To kill people and destroy the culture they came from. It's really not too much different from slavery in the South unless you really are obsessed with splitting hairs.

Do you really think that people went to work camps and forced labor camps and then left--if they were lucky--and strolled home and said "Wow, you will not believe the shit I went through! What's for dinner?"

While African American slaves were ripped away from their homes, the culture they left behind is not lost. It's there for them to explore if they want too. The same holds true to virtually every oppressed minority. Heck, look at the Kurds in the mideast. A people without a country whose lives have been shattered by assholes who simply hate them for their race and ethnicity.

And regardless none of that has any bearing on anyone's decision to beat and murder their own child. People nowadays are really obsessed with blaming the past and taking little responsibility for their own actions. That's bullshit. You kill your kid, you're sick and blaming your ancestory means that every other African American in the U.S. is predisposed towards doing the same thing in the future. Ultimatelly this defense is more racist and self-hating than anything a white supremecist could ever say.

[Edited on Jun 01, 2004 by royaljack]

Look - I tried to be diplomatic about reminding you that I don't support him using it as an excuse, but if you don't want to pay attention, then there's no sense in talking to you.

I'd say th ebig difference for a lot of the immigrants from shattered backgrounds is that they wanted to come here, wanted to break away from the past and wanted to start over. Having at least a nominal education and those qualities helps a lot in improving one's lot in life.

Compare that with a group of people systematically and unwillingly ripped from their homes and sent overseas where everything the used to love, know and understand was destroyed as a new life was force fed down their throats at the end of a whip. Further compound this by generations of institutionally driven repression, oppression and cultural destruction and you have what you see here today.

As for going back and visiting their culture, i'd place a fair amount of money on a wager that about 95% or more of the African Americans living today have no idea of their ancestral culture or background. I can say that my background is Polish, Czech, German, Austrian, English, Scotts-Irish and Seneca. All the majority of African Americans can say is that they are "Black."

There is no sense of cultural identity or link to origins in a group of people who original sense of identity was systematically destroyed. Instead a new identity had to be forged based on the shared experiences of being forced to come to America via cramped, often deadly ships.

I'm not saying that it's impossible for a member of this culture to rise from the bottom, but it's pretty fucking hard to win a game of poker with a Jack High while everyone else at the table is sporting three of a kind or better.

I totally thought you were gonna say you saved a ton of money with gieko