NEWS: Torture Art Prompts Assault

I think I do understand where Muzencab is coming from, though.

If I'm drunkenly walking down a street in a violent neighborhood in an expensive outfit and I get mugged and lose $200 in cash, I would never say that I deserved to get mugged, but wouldn't you say that I did something dumb and could have easily prevented such a thing?

Not that I'm agreeing with him. But I see where his point is coming from.

Placing the very graphic and explicit picture in her window was stupid. If she'd refused to remove it and had gotten punched, I might've say "Them's the breaks." Removing it from display to the general public when she received complaints should have ended the problem, but the media coverage created a situation in which her mistake was multiplied exponentially beyond her control and a group of people became irrational and predatory. My empathy comes from the fact that she did the wrong thing and tried to fix it, but wound up losing in the end.

Very few of you have a good point and even less have any viable premesis for any of your opinions.

Get pissed at me if you want. Just be able to back up what you say.

British occupation, I dont know anything about the matter, and I really dont give a shit.

Pick and choose what you will out of what I say, I see some are only choosing things that support what they want to expound to everyone else.

Just like the two cowards that joined the military and then ran off to Canada (no offence to the Canadians), they went in knowing they could be in a war, so now is it ok to say they were justified in running?

I have studied and been in the vein of art for years, and now non artists want to tell me what its all about?

If you have an opinion state it here. I'm not on this thread to make friends but to challenge ideals (kinda like the artist we are all talking about). I dont want to hear I'm right, but to make you think about the bigger picture. Kinda like the butterfly effect. We dont know all the variables in the equasion, but a lot of people sure are ready to tell they're opinion on a vague incedent.

Curse me if you want, but until you can state precident or even some facts of the situation, your out of your rabbit ass mind.

*leaves for good*

Thank you, you get what I'm trying to say. I appriciate that.

I NEVER said I supported any violence. I only speak for myself. Some people are gonna get in fights just to do it.

Ill conceived, no these are actuall time forged thoughts.

And yes Maplethorp has made some great work.

[Edited on May 30, 2004 by Muzencab]

Why did she do the wrong thing? I think she did the RIGHT thing. This kind of stuff has been displayed in artgalleries in San Francisco for years since the Vietnam war and you know I have never heard of such a thing happening before where a gallery owner was attacked.

Just shows how we need to change the political climate of this country by electing John Kerry

Muzencab has violated terms of service by posting physical threats against me in this board. How do I reach a moderator? I can't flag his post since I have not been on here 9 months.

Christ.

Wow, this thread has really stirred some shit up...

Okay, here's my two cents:

One, I think, personally, that the picture placed in the window was a shitty piece of work. The artwork wsa awful, just plain bad. If it was some experimental piece, post medernist, whatever, you can look the other way and allow for some interpretation of character formation, etc, but this was a straight rendering of people and it sucked.

Two, I think what Muzencab is trying to say is that the woman who showed the work shouldn't have been all that suprised that there ws such a reaction. SHould she have shown it? Sure, why the hell not. Art is meant to be seen (even if it does suck). It's meant to look nice, be aesthetically pleasing, and even to challenge your ideas, make you think. Can't be done unless you show it. Now, for all of you who seem to think that Muzencab is simply stating "Bitch had it coming", well, back up, read the posts, and pay attention. Nothing of the sort is said. I agree with him that those who do things that are meant to get a rise out of people (and hanging a piece of artwork that is as charged as that one was) should expect and be ready for omething to happen. It doesn't make it right when it _does_ happen, but it should be expected.

Three, the people that gave shit to the woman _after_ the piece was taken down are just as bad, if not worse, than those who railed against her for showing it. It's the worst kind of hypocrisy.

Anyway, just my 2cents.

No shit...

Muzencab, please play nice with the n00b.

Muzencab proposed he put up pictures of aborted babies and call it art. I think that's a good analogy, but for a different reason. Do I want to see that? Of course not. But if someone thinks I should see it, I have no grounds to disagree.

There are things in this world that are disgusting and immoral and unfair and every bad adjective you can imagine. If seeing them makes us uncomfortable... GOOD. They should. The only difference between me and an Iraqi prisoner, or an aborted baby, is circumstance. Circumstances aligned, through little doing of our own, and put all of us where we are, presumably sitting in a relatively comfortable chair with a relatively expensive piece of technology in front of us. We are all extremely lucky that we weren't born in a warzone, or aborted, because it happens to people every day through no fault of their own.

So we should feel uncomfortable when we see things like torture or abortion, but to shove it under the rug so we can go on with our relatively cushy lives unaware and punish whoever showed us is selfish, arrogant, and inhumane. Most people didn't earn their comfortable lives, they only inherit them because their parents happened to fuck in the free world. By "comfortable," I mean not living in constant fear of murder, starvation, or enslavement. Had circumstances turned out differently, any of us could have had a dismal fate, so even if we can't do anything to stop it, we ought to at least respect them enough to acknowledge it, no matter how uncomfortable it makes us. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Amen to that. Can't handle reality? Crawl into a hole somewhere. I'd rather know and see and DEAL with it and GROW as a result.

Reminds me of the time my school was forbidden to read 'Tom Sawyer' because it had the n-word in it. I don't use it, I don't believe in it, but it is historically accurate to the period of American life. If we ignore and erase it, all we do is take a step backward.

OUR SOLDIERS TORTURED PEOPLE. IT IS FACT.

I agree!

and if I wouldn't get in trouble for it I would like to offer you bodily harm should I ever meet you.

IF I WOULDN"T GET IN TROUBLE

and the word OFFER means you would have to accept.

dork.

I thought you were a body guard willy?

Why are you so angry and hostile Muzencab? Perphaps anger management classes would help? Or just lay back in your hammock and chill.

Oh Muzencab, you are sooooo masterful!!

I really admire the way in which you skillfully utilise subtle linguistic nuances when making veiled threats.

Can't we all just get along?



Edited to say that airbrushing a couple of model cars does not make one an expert on what art really is.


[Edited on Jun 01, 2004 by gutterman]

It's called "arts and crafts

It seems to me the ones defending the victim here are being more insulting. Double-reverse irony.

Welcome to the world. 'The oppressed love their oppressors and cannot wait to follow their example.'

Dude, wtf?