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princessleah

princessleah

New York, NY
February 2004

MAR 31, 2004 07:01 AM

"Girls Gone Wild" producer, Joe Francis, is in the legal doghouse after a 21 year-old college student accused him of rape.

The 21-year-old woman, a college student, told police she met Francis at the Di Lido Beach Club inside the Ritz-Carlton on South Beach, according to a police report. The woman's friend recognized Francis, who is often in the news because of his controversial videos.

The woman told The Herald in an interview Monday that she had three drinks at the bar -- a shot of tequila and two mixed cocktails. Then, at Francis' invitation, she and her friend went up to his hotel room. Later, she blacked out.

The woman told police she thought her drink may have been drugged.

''I didn't think I'd get so drunk after three drinks,'' she explained in an interview.

The woman woke up naked the next morning in Francis' bed. He was naked, too, she said. She couldn't remember what happened hours before, she told police.



Aya

Aya

SUICIDEGIRL

Alberta, Canada

MAR 31, 2004 08:24 AM

Weren't they accused earlier of filming underage girls in their vids?

*le sigh*

UnnecessaryZ

unnecessaryz

Astoria, NY
July 2003

MAR 31, 2004 08:29 AM

Never trust a big butt and a smile.

_Sarah_

_Sarah_

Kalamazoo, MI
January 2003

MAR 31, 2004 08:46 AM

UnnecessaryZ said:
Never trust a big butt and a smile.


That girl is poison.


[Edited on Mar 31, 2004 by Sorcha]

Twwly

Twwly

SUICIDEGIRL

Ontario, Canada

MAR 31, 2004 08:51 AM

It's a shame they didn't get bloodwork right away. Blacking out after 3 drinks sounds like tranqs to me.

Gross.

VM

VM

Los Angeles, CA
October 2003

MAR 31, 2004 08:57 AM

I'd just like to play devil's advocate here. While three drinks does in fact sound highly suspecious, think about this for just a moment:

You meet a porn director.
You go drinking with him.
You go back to his hotel room of your own free will with your friend...

...what the hell do you think is going to happen?

In addition to his defense, I'm a drinking panzy, I've passed out from that little before. In short, my money is on extortion, as usual. She knew exactly what she was doing.

pineapple

pineapple

Japan
February 2004

MAR 31, 2004 09:36 AM

Girls Gone Wild films very frequently in a certain club in my hometown , and several really sketchy things have happened to girls I know by the people who make these films. Wouldn't surprise me if its true, but I also wouldn't be surprised if this woman is just trying to get attention either.

resonator

resonator

Morehead City, NC
August 2003

MAR 31, 2004 09:38 AM

while i have sympathy for all the girls who've been treated in a sketchy shameful manner by the girls gone wild guys, in all fairness, i have to say, what do you think will happen when you go drinking with the girls gone wild guy/guys/whatever?

if you don't want to get a. fucked or b. put on video showing your titties or whatever, maybe you shouldn't hang out with those guys, eh?

xoxo

Polly

Polly

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

MAR 31, 2004 09:43 AM

RAPE is something totally different. i can see your side of it [ obviously the guy is skeezy, etc. ] but i don't think that means she " had what was coming to her "

and i think its a pretty messed up thing to say.

Cash

Cash

USA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 31, 2004 09:54 AM

resonator said:
while i have sympathy for all the girls who've been treated in a sketchy shameful manner by the girls gone wild guys, in all fairness, i have to say, what do you think will happen when you go drinking with the girls gone wild guy/guys/whatever?

if you don't want to get a. fucked or b. put on video showing your titties or whatever, maybe you shouldn't hang out with those guys, eh?

xoxo



I would expect a woman to get propositioned for sex if she hung around those guys. I would also expect that she be given the opportunity to consent, or refuse.

You seem to forget that the story says she recognized him in a bar and went over to talk to him. It wasn't ;ile she made plans to meet him in a dark alley.



[Edited on Mar 31, 2004 by Cash]

Al

Al

SUICIDEGIRL

Christmas Island

MAR 31, 2004 09:59 AM

Cash said:
I would expect a woman to get propositioned for sex if she hung around those guys. I would also expect that she be given the opportunity to consent, or refuse.


Word, Cash.

humberthumbert

humberthumbert

HOPEFUL

Greenland

MAR 31, 2004 10:05 AM

i say BLAME THE VICTIM!

rape sucks.

MistakesMade

MistakesMade

USA
February 2004

MAR 31, 2004 10:07 AM

Unfortunately... I've been drugged at a party once in my day... shittiest thing ever... you just never know. I never did anything about it mostly because I was so confused/stillhalf drugged/wanting to shower right away. Anyways the only thing that seems weird in her story to me is that she would go through the rape kit, but then not take time to get the blood test done?? Even if she wasn't sure if she wanted to press charges she could still get the test done, and if I remember correctly, she would have 6 months to decide if she wanted to press charges.

In my opinion the fact that she recognized him and still decided to go up to him... and not only that go back to the hotel with him?? Not saying her being drugged is ok, but seriously thats the worst judgement everwhatever

zombi00

zombi00

Portland, OR
February 2004

MAR 31, 2004 10:27 AM

it's a shame if that woman was taken advantage of by that creep.
where was her friend during all of this? surely if one was drugged the other would have been too, and she would have been taken advantage of as well. that doesn't seem to fit.

skaterpunK

skaterpunk

Tampa, FL
January 2004

MAR 31, 2004 10:33 AM

About the whole thing with underage girls, part of that happened in Panama City Beach. My friend's older brother was there, (by chance in the hotel room next to the GGW crew) and they were inviting girls up for video shoots. He said they weren't filling out liability waivers, or even asking for proof of ID with a lot of em. They just drove down the beach, and invited all sorts of girls to come up. Kinda screwed up, he said he got a shoutout in the vid, didnt see it, but I did see some pics he took with the crew in their hotel room. Lucky bastard. Not really cool bout the underage girls tho.

As for this topic... I guess Porn Directors need to get theirs too... and it must be harder than originally thought if they need to drug people.

[Edited on Mar 31, 2004 by skaterpunK]

bcnelson

bcnelson

Pasadena, CA
September 2002

MAR 31, 2004 11:00 AM

Dunno, the big question is did she get drunk, have sex with the guy and have buyer's remorse, did she intend from the start to extort the guy for cash (possible, she did recognize him after all), did she just pass out from three drinks (still rape in my mind if she's incapable of assenting or refusing),or was she drugged.

As someone earlier said its a shame there's no bloodwork to show whether or not she was drugged. That would pretty much settle the question if she was.

As it is, the situation is shady on both sides. They did approach a porn producer and voluntarily accept an invitiation to his room. They are of legal drinking age. Up until that point its clear nothing illegal or involuntary happened.
The guy has been accused of doing various other shady things, but never of raping anyone. Could be he's slime, could be she's making it up for one reason or another.

To my mind, and I think a jury's mind, her voluntary actions up to the time they were alone in the room and noone else can vouch for what happened have to carry a lot of weight. The fact she had a friend there with her who doesn't allege being drugged or raped is shady as well.

Rape is such an emotional subject that a lot of people tend to fall into this "if she says it that's all I need to know" trap. Bottom line, its a he said she said at this point, and there's no reason based upon the facts presented here to believe she's any more credible than he is. Since the standard for guilt is beyond a reasonable doubt, she has a way to go before i'd convict the guy.

Not to say there isn't evidence, or that he won't be charged, or even convicted based on information we don't have now, but screaming "he did it, he must have raped her" based on the details we have here only demonstrates a complete lack of analytical thought.

Hammersmith

Hammersmith

Boston, MA
December 2003

MAR 31, 2004 11:08 AM

Wow, who ever thought that the guy who walks around a beach trying to pressure random girls into showing him their "kitty cat" could possibly be a creep?

CokeConfessional

cokeconfessional

Belleville, NJ
March 2004

MAR 31, 2004 11:21 AM

bcnelson said:
Dunno, the big question is did she get drunk, have sex with the guy and have buyer's remorse, did she intend from the start to extort the guy for cash (possible, she did recognize him after all), did she just pass out from three drinks (still rape in my mind if she's incapable of assenting or refusing),or was she drugged.

As someone earlier said its a shame there's no bloodwork to show whether or not she was drugged. That would pretty much settle the question if she was.

As it is, the situation is shady on both sides. They did approach a porn producer and voluntarily accept an invitiation to his room. They are of legal drinking age. Up until that point its clear nothing illegal or involuntary happened.
The guy has been accused of doing various other shady things, but never of raping anyone. Could be he's slime, could be she's making it up for one reason or another.

To my mind, and I think a jury's mind, her voluntary actions up to the time they were alone in the room and noone else can vouch for what happened have to carry a lot of weight. The fact she had a friend there with her who doesn't allege being drugged or raped is shady as well.

Rape is such an emotional subject that a lot of people tend to fall into this "if she says it that's all I need to know" trap. Bottom line, its a he said she said at this point, and there's no reason based upon the facts presented here to believe she's any more credible than he is. Since the standard for guilt is beyond a reasonable doubt, she has a way to go before i'd convict the guy.

Not to say there isn't evidence, or that he won't be charged, or even convicted based on information we don't have now, but screaming "he did it, he must have raped her" based on the details we have here only demonstrates a complete lack of analytical thought.




Couldn't have said it better myself. As much as I hate that guy (the GGW guy) and think he's a huge scumbag, I believe in innocence until proven guilt. It is very easy to hear a claim like rape thrown at someone and quickly jump on her side without asking any questions and it is also easy to blame the victim saying that she was asking for it.

From what little I've heard, her story sounds suspect. You don't bring in a stray dog from the street and look at it with shock and disdain when it shits on your carpet. Willingly spending time with a person of ill-repute such as that man is putting yourself in a situation where you should be on your guard. Further, she must have known what she was doing going into her room with him.

See: French Waiter vs. Mayor Quimby's Nephew.

Am I saying he didn't rape her? No. Am I saying he did? No. What I am saying is that facts need to be gathered before we grab the torches and pitchforks.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

MAR 31, 2004 11:51 AM

I can't believe so many people in this thread seem to be suggesting that bad judgement means that a woman is "asking for it". If she was raped, it doesn't matter one fucking bit what kind of judgement she used. IF she was raped, than when she said no or passed out, it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY to stop. Judgement, good or bad, doesn't enter into it.

apologees

apologees

Antarctica
February 2003

MAR 31, 2004 12:04 PM

Morgan said:
I can't believe so many people in this thread seem to be suggesting that bad judgement means that a woman is "asking for it". If she was raped, it doesn't matter one fucking bit what kind of judgement she used. IF she was raped, than when she said no or passed out, it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY to stop. Judgement, good or bad, doesn't enter into it.



good point. well said.
smile

tronvillain

tronvillain

Grande Prairie, AB
April 2003

MAR 31, 2004 12:26 PM

*sigh* Don't you hate reading a thread only to discover everything you wanted to say has been said? What Morgan and bcnelson said.

CokeConfessional

cokeconfessional

Belleville, NJ
March 2004

MAR 31, 2004 12:39 PM

Morgan said:
I can't believe so many people in this thread seem to be suggesting that bad judgement means that a woman is "asking for it". If she was raped, it doesn't matter one fucking bit what kind of judgement she used. IF she was raped, than when she said no or passed out, it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY to stop. Judgement, good or bad, doesn't enter into it.



No one is saying she "asked for it". At least I wasn't. Saying someone should have exercised better judgement does not directly corrolate to her deserving it or it being her fault. What we are saying is that that should be an evident strike against her case when all things are pooled in.
Rape is a very touchy subject as almost all of us have had, at one point or another, someone very close to us sexually assaulted if not the person themselves. However, we cannot let emotions supercede judgement in these scenarios. The fact is, as much as millions of rapes go unreported or unjustly served in the court system, there is also the plight of unjust accusations of rape as well.

What I'm saying is that judgement does have to enter into this equation. An evident lapse in sense shows that there could be a kink in her case. Not grounds for him to be set off scott free, just grounds enough to warrant a deeper investigation into this case before conclusions are made.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

MAR 31, 2004 12:52 PM

But people do things that are against good judgement all the time. I don't see why that would make it any less likely that he did rape her, though. That doesn't seem logical at all.

sympathyinchaos

sympathyinchaos

Chicago, IL
January 2004

MAR 31, 2004 12:56 PM

Isn't Girls Gone Wild insanely profitable?

CokeConfessional

cokeconfessional

Belleville, NJ
March 2004

MAR 31, 2004 01:01 PM

Morgan said:
But people do things that are against good judgement all the time. I don't see why that would make it any less likely that he did rape her, though. That doesn't seem logical at all.



Well, I think this example is beyond bad judgement. It's a complete lapse in common sense akin to characters in bad horror movies. That, in and off itself, sows a seed of doubt to me. Coupled with the fact that this man is worth a lot of money, you've really got to look at this story from every possible angle.
From what little I've heard, it will be a hard sell to convince me he raped her.

Unfortunately, this opens up a can of worms I'd really rather leave closed. Proving rape isn't always an easy thing to do. Thing is though, from what has been presented.. it just sounds like something could be fishy.

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