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Psyche

Psyche

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 26, 2011 06:46 PM

Okay, usually I despise the content and poor literary style of Yahoo! News (and I think I despise it even more now after reading this), but this one caught my eye so I clicked on the link. And seeing as how quite a few people on this site share similar culinary habits as me, I felt compelled to share this with you all. According to this, some of us suffer from an eating disorder that has been dubbed "orthorexia nervosa." tongue

I have a friend who will only eat short pasta, like penne. Another friend sticks to long pasta - linguini, spaghetti. I thought that was a bit bizarre until I read about Heather Hill, 39, whose diet consists entirely of French fries, pasta with butter or marinara sauce, vegetarian pizza, cooked broccoli, corn on the cob, and cakes and cookies without nuts.

Ms. Hill isn’t alone. New findings indicate that there may be hundreds, if not thousands, of adult picky eaters. To get a handle on the numbers, Duke University and the University of Pittsburgh have launched a national public registry of adult picky eaters. Respected publications like JAMA and Psychology Today are recognizing another new eating disorder, orthorexia, an obsession with healthy eating. That may not sound bad, as obsessions go, but those who carry good intentions too far can face serious risks.

Eat the right foods to keep your bones strong.

Kristie Rutzel, 27, dropped to 68 pounds when she was in the grip of her fixation on healthy eating - at one point she ate little more than raw broccoli and cauliflower. Neither adult picky eating disorder nor orthorexia is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), the American Psychiatric Association’s “bible” of mental disorders. Once a disorder is listed, treatment is often covered by insurance and it’s easier for researchers to get grants to study it. Here’s what we know so far:

* What is Adult Selective Eating? Like kids, adult picky eaters limit themselves to an extremely narrow range of foods. Unlike those who suffer from anorexia nervosa or bulimia, adult picky eaters are seemingly not worried about calorie counts or body image. But so far, researchers don’t know if adult picky eaters just haven’t outgrown childhood patterns or if their eating habits are a new twist on obsessive compulsive disorder. Some may be “supertasters,” with an abnormally acute sense of taste that turns them off certain foods. Many appear to have had unpleasant childhood associations with food.

* What is orthorexia? Identified in 1997 by Colorado physician Steven Bratman, MD, orthorexia is Latin for “correct eating.” Here, too, the focus isn’t on losing weight. Instead, sufferers increasingly restrict their diets to foods they consider pure, natural and healthful. Some researchers say that orthorexia may combine a touch of obsessive compulsive disorder with anxiety and warn that severely limited “healthy” diets may be a stepping stone to anorexia nervosa, the most severe - and potentially life-threatening - eating disorder.

What do they eat?

* Adult picky eaters: Food preferences tend to be bland, white or pale colored - plain pasta or cheese pizza are said to be common foods along with French fries and chicken fingers. Some picky eaters stick to foods with a common texture or taste.

* Orthorexics: Those affected may start by eliminating processed foods, anything with artificial colorings or flavorings as well as foods that have come into contact with pesticides. Beyond that, orthorexics may also shun caffeine, alcohol, sugar, salt, wheat and dairy foods. Some limit themselves to raw foods.

Check out this mobile phone app that guides healthy food choices.

What are the risks?

* Health consequences: Limiting your diet to only a few foods - because you’re a picky eater or have a long list of foods you deem unhealthy - can lead to potentially dangerous nutritional deficiencies. At its most extreme, a diet limited to only a few foods perceived to be healthy is described as orthorexia nervosa and can lead to the same emaciation and health risks seen with anorexia nervosa.

* Social Isolation: Being an adult picky eater can take an enormous social toll. Out of embarrassment, these folks avoid dining with friends or co-workers. Heather Hill tries to hide her eating habits from her children for fear that they will pick them up. Going to extremes in an effort to eat only healthy foods can also be socially isolating and can undermine personal relationships.

How are these disorders treated?

* Adult Selective Eating: Techniques that have proven successful in treating kids who are picky eaters - learning assertiveness skills and systematically trying new foods - are being used on adults, but it’s still too soon to know whether they work.

* Orthorexia: Cognitive behavior therapy designed to change obsessive thought patterns regarding food is usually recommended.



http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/new-eating-disorders-are-they-real

Come on... is this for real? Suddenly eating healthy is now an eating DISORDER, which needs to be "treated" by the psychiatric community. Because obviously it should be the health-conscientious folks that need to start consuming carcinogenic products like the typical fat, lazy consumers, and not the other way around, right? Obviously SOMETHING must be wrong with the health-conscious people who take the time to read the nutrition labels and inform themselves about what ingredients they are consuming.

Over the past couple decades we have seen an interesting trend with the psychology field, where they have continuously kept creating more and more categories for so-called "illnesses," all to create and launch marketable treatments and medications to the public for.

Does anybody buy this? What are your thoughts on these new "eating disorders?"

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

APR 26, 2011 07:23 PM

They skipped the part where the person might be a crappy cook and can only make a few foods that come out edible.

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

APR 26, 2011 08:25 PM

While I don't claim to suffer from a disorder, I'm certainly an adult picky eater who experiences a lot of anxiety related to food and social situations. It's been an issue since my early childhood and it takes a big effort on my part to steel myself when trying new foods. My family and friends tease me good natuerdly about my diet (hamburgers, pasta with red sauce, mac & cheese, peanut butter sandwiches, yogurt, various dessert foods, but virtually no unprocessed vegetables) and I try to take it in stride, but things like weddings or restaurants with people who aren't aware of my habits cause problems for me. I'll make excuses for not eating or force myself to eat enough to be polite (at the last wedding I went to I got down some mushroom bisque and chickenm but my salad went untouched. Fortunately I was among friends). I'm 28 but eat like an overindulged child. Grandma even makes me separate meals at holiday dinners.

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

APR 26, 2011 08:32 PM

Boy, talk about your "first world problems". whatever

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

APR 26, 2011 09:24 PM

Would you rather I had dysentery?

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

APR 26, 2011 09:29 PM

Cigarette said:
Would you rather I had dysentery?



Absolutely not, but I am suggesting that if this were the kind of place where dysentery is common, perhaps our society wouldn't have this other problem. Truly a disease of privilege. Still, I'd rather deal with obesity and "picking eating disorder" than eat mud cakes and rice.

(Secondly, I was responding to the OP generally, not your post.)

Psyche

Psyche

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 26, 2011 11:24 PM

Keith said:

Cigarette said:
Would you rather I had dysentery?



Absolutely not, but I am suggesting that if this were the kind of place where dysentery is common, perhaps our society wouldn't have this other problem. Truly a disease of privilege. Still, I'd rather deal with obesity and "picking eating disorder" than eat mud cakes and rice.

(Secondly, I was responding to the OP generally, not your post.)



Yes, but that's precisely my point (not sure if you read the posts after the quote). That this "disorder" is not even a legitimate disorder, and that it's not even a real problem (for either the individual or for society).

You could also argue that almost all mental health disorders listed under DSM-IV are technically "first world diseases." I mean, I've never heard of anybody popping Rx pills for depression or anxiety in countries like Afghanistan or Liberia.

It's also worthy of noting that many of those third-world countries actually have a staple diet that would fall under OUR version of a "health-conscious" category. If you look at the staple diet in places like Vietnam, India, or Cambodia, their produce is fresh and "organic," their animals aren't pumped with hormones or antibiotics, and none of their foods are processed. And that's supposed to be a GOOD thing! So yes, you are right, ONLY in America would we consider being conscientious of health food to be a problem. tongue

(And before you correct me, I do realize some of those countries I listed are no longer 3rd world but in the 2nd world stages. But I am taking into consideration the fact that even when they were 3rd world, their staple diet has not changed considerably since that time)

Cockzombie

Cockzombie

San Diego, CA
July 2006

APR 26, 2011 11:47 PM

wait- I'm expected to take you seriously to define what are and what are not eating disorders? RIght.



Come on... is this for real? Suddenly eating healthy is now an eating DISORDER, which needs to be "treated" by the psychiatric community.



maybe you didn't read the entire article- or you think pasta with butter, mac and cheese, and chicken nuggets healthy? whatever

Psyche

Psyche

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 12:06 AM

Cockzombie said:
wait- I'm expected to take you seriously to define what are and what are not eating disorders? RIght.



Are you just here to start shit? If so, kindly shut the fuck up. In case you haven't noticed: This thread isn't about me! So go crawl back to whatever cave you hobbled out of, and go humor yourself elsewhere. whatever

maybe you didn't read the entire article- or you think pasta with butter, mac and cheese, and chicken nuggets healthy? whatever



Again, I'm primarily referring to "orthorexia"--which is the emphasis on a diet that IS, by definition, healthy.

Cockzombie

Cockzombie

San Diego, CA
July 2006

APR 27, 2011 01:29 AM

There are so, SO many flaws in your arguement I don't even have the time to dissect the whole thing.
but, for one:


Because obviously it should be the health-conscientious folks that need to start consuming carcinogenic products like the typical fat, lazy consumers, and not the other way around, right?



because typically ALL fat people ONLY eat carcinogenic products and are lazy consumers. confused

I will say though, that I doubt you are suffering from "orthorexia" (which is the emphasis on a diet that IS, by definition, healthy.) given that in one of your more recent public blogs you were excited about scoring some free crack.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

APR 27, 2011 05:59 AM

A diet that is, by definition, healthy, and took the girl spoken about in the article down to 68 lbs.? Orthorexia sound like a mixture between OCD and anorexia. Yeah, that sounds healthy. Not a disorder at all.

FYI, not all mental disorders are immediately life threatening - that doesn't mean they aren't mental disorders. Who are you to judge what is or isn't a mental or eating disorder?

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

APR 27, 2011 06:27 AM

Clidna said:
A diet that is, by definition, healthy, and took the girl spoken about in the article down to 68 lbs.? Orthorexia sound like a mixture between OCD and anorexia. Yeah, that sounds healthy. Not a disorder at all.

FYI, not all mental disorders are immediately life threatening - that doesn't mean they aren't mental disorders. Who are you to judge what is or isn't a mental or eating disorder?



Thank you. I have zero patience for the "come on, this isn't a real thing because I don't understand it!" approach to other people's health problems. You have to be deliberately missing the point here in order to argue that anyone's trying to pathologize eating a healthy diet. What it's talking about it something else entirely.

What you're saying, Psyche, is equivalent to saying that anorexia is just a healthy mindfulness of how much one eats and why is that a problem, hmm? It's a problem because it's clearly not just a healthy mindfulness of how much one eats. No one's going to stick anyone in a psych ward for eating a healthy diet, for fuck's sake.

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 11:07 AM

Psyche also thinks some emotionally disturbed kids just need the shit beat out of them so it seems we can all infer that her grasp of modern psychological theory is lacking.

Mantis

Mantis

SUICIDEGIRL

Texas, USA

APR 27, 2011 11:53 AM

This thread is unhealthy.

Psyche

Psyche

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 12:07 PM

Cockzombie said:
I will say though, that I doubt you are suffering from "orthorexia" (which is the emphasis on a diet that IS, by definition, healthy.) given that in one of your more recent public blogs you were excited about scoring some free crack.



And?!?!?!?? What the FUCK does using recreational drugs have to do with your diet? You can still have a healthy diet and engage in a lifestyle that is potentially unhealthy--such as promiscuous sex, recreational drugs, extreme sports, or binge drinking. Well, except for the alcohol, because that actually figures into your diet.

It's like the vegetarian paradox. I've actually known people who are vegetarians and pescatarians for health reasons, who also smoke cigarettes. And I've met people who work in the medical industry, who have had drug problems. It's not unheard of to be healthy in one aspect, and unhealthy in another.

You claim my diet is unhealthy, and then bring in other aspects that, quite frankly, have NOTHING to do with diet. Because I actually DO have a healthy diet. I make almost all my foods from scratch, which is evidenced by my posts in the Kitchen.

Or did you mention that simply because you have a prejudice against recreational drug users? whatever

Clidna said:
A diet that is, by definition, healthy, and took the girl spoken about in the article down to 68 lbs.? Orthorexia sound like a mixture between OCD and anorexia. Yeah, that sounds healthy. Not a disorder at all.



Right, but that's an extreme case which is verging on anorexia.

Mythryl

Mythryl

Davenport, FL
February 2011

APR 27, 2011 12:22 PM

Can we discuss this without throwing insults around at each other?
I can see why Psyche may have read into the article the way she has. At first glance I thought very similar until I really payed attention to what the article was saying. I had a friend go down the same road. She started by cutting out meat (which in itself isn't a problem) but became so consumed by eating what she thought was "healthy" she ended up hardly eating at all and making herself very sick. I think thats more what the article was reffering to. As far as picky eating goes I'm a very picky eater as well but again I think its more when it goes to the extreme.

All in all I think the article could have been written better. The presentation in some areas can make it sound like having a healthy diet is bad and I don't fault Psyche for reading it that way.

Mantis

Mantis

SUICIDEGIRL

Texas, USA

APR 27, 2011 12:26 PM

Orthorexics: Those affected may start by eliminating processed foods, anything with artificial colorings or flavorings as well as foods that have come into contact with pesticides. Beyond that, orthorexics may also shun caffeine, alcohol, sugar, salt, wheat and dairy foods. Some limit themselves to raw foods.

Raw diets are very, very healthy. Plus, someone who eats raw most likely pays much more attention to their diets than other people. This doesn't sound like a disorder, and medical professionals haven't declared it as one.

SnakePlissken

SnakePlissken

Corvallis, OR
December 2002

APR 27, 2011 12:51 PM

As mentioned before we're not talking about the average joe concerned about healthy eating here, but someone whose obsession is based around food. That's not healthy eating, that's a mental illness focused on healthy eating. Shirking it off as not a big deal or imaginary is just as wrong as saying someone who is cripplingly obsessed with making sure their door is locked is full of shit because no-one likes to get robbed.

The human mind is a complex puzzle we really are only just beginning to understand, and as we do new illnesses and facets of previously known conditions become more aware to scientists and doctors. It's not invention, it's discovery. And while I won't argue that the drug companies and their interaction with the medical field is generally fucked, I will argue against anyone who doesn't consider a mental problem a real and tangible illness.


And?!?!?!?? What the FUCK does using recreational drugs have to do with your diet? You can still have a healthy diet and engage in a lifestyle that is potentially unhealthy--such as promiscuous sex, recreational drugs, extreme sports, or binge drinking. Well, except for the alcohol, because that actually figures into your diet.



Any drug you ingest in any form figures into your diet. And plenty of them contain carcinogens, especially crack cocaine. That being said I believe the point she's making is that through your ingestion of such items you are doing the exact same thing as those "typical fat and lazy" people, just in a different way.

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 01:31 PM

Mantis said:
Orthorexics: Those affected may start by eliminating processed foods, anything with artificial colorings or flavorings as well as foods that have come into contact with pesticides. Beyond that, orthorexics may also shun caffeine, alcohol, sugar, salt, wheat and dairy foods. Some limit themselves to raw foods.

Raw diets are very, very healthy. Plus, someone who eats raw most likely pays much more attention to their diets than other people. This doesn't sound like a disorder, and medical professionals haven't declared it as one.



There is a huge difference between choosing to eat certain healthy foods and becoming obsessive/ disordered about your diet in a way that focuses on pure or healthy foods. Just as there is a huge diet between limiting caloric intake in order to healthfully lose weight, and obsessively eliminating calories in an anorexic way.

Also, raw diets are not necessarily healthy. Just like any other lifestyle or diet it depends on the person and the execution.

Mantis

Mantis

SUICIDEGIRL

Texas, USA

APR 27, 2011 01:43 PM

Absolutely. And I could see how for some people who are suseptible to eating disorders could be triggered by a raw diet. It could make some people go there, without a doubt. But is it it's own disorder or a subset of anorexia? The medical community is saying so far that it is not it's own diorder. That could change, and I hope it does so that differnt treatment options are explored for anorexia and other eating disorders. But for now it is not a disorder.

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 01:51 PM

Mantis said:
Absolutely. And I could see how for some people who are suseptible to eating disorders could be triggered by a raw diet. It could make some people go there, without a doubt. But is it it's own disorder or a subset of anorexia? The medical community is saying so far that it is not it's own diorder. That could change, and I hope it does so that differnt treatment options are explored for anorexia and other eating disorders. But for now it is not a disorder.



Just to clarify it's not the raw diet itself that would be considered a disorder. It's the disordered view of food that leads to an obsession with purity and cleanliness and very, very restricted diet.

It seems like we're on the same page here but I just want to be clear that the raw diet in and of itself isn't to me (or I think the medical community) a sign of disordered eating - it's more that this kind of disorder lends itself very well to a raw diet (if this comes to be considered its own disorder).

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

APR 27, 2011 07:22 PM

Thistle said:

Mantis said:
Absolutely. And I could see how for some people who are suseptible to eating disorders could be triggered by a raw diet. It could make some people go there, without a doubt. But is it it's own disorder or a subset of anorexia? The medical community is saying so far that it is not it's own diorder. That could change, and I hope it does so that differnt treatment options are explored for anorexia and other eating disorders. But for now it is not a disorder.



Just to clarify it's not the raw diet itself that would be considered a disorder. It's the disordered view of food that leads to an obsession with purity and cleanliness and very, very restricted diet.

It seems like we're on the same page here but I just want to be clear that the raw diet in and of itself isn't to me (or I think the medical community) a sign of disordered eating - it's more that this kind of disorder lends itself very well to a raw diet (if this comes to be considered its own disorder).



Right. This orthorexia thing isn't an attempt to pathologize normal behavior; it's an attempt to describe a variety of eating-disordered behaviors, "disorder" being the key word here. Cutting certain foods from your diet is not in and of itself a problem; it is a problem when doing so hinders you from living life. Going on a diet is not in and of itself a problem; starving yourself is.

I get frustrated when people look at the basics of a mental health problem, draw a direct parallel to "normal" behaviors that seem similar to the hallmarks of that problem, and conclude that the problem is therefore normal and therefore not a problem. It happens with depression all the time: "Everyone gets sad. That's normal; that's not a problem. Popping pills so you'll never be sad is wrong/lazy/self-indulgent/weak." Feeling sadness is totally normal. Depression has some similarities to the common feeling of sadness. But they're not the same thing. Having a beer every now and again and being a fall-down-drunk alcoholic have alcohol in common, but they're not the same thing. And following a particular dietary regimen and orthorexia have food and food choices in common, but (wait for it!) they're not the same thing.

Cash

Cash

USA
OLD SKOOL

APR 27, 2011 08:13 PM

Keith said:
Boy, talk about your "first world problems". whatever



Whitewhine.com?

zoom image

Mantis

Mantis

SUICIDEGIRL

Texas, USA

APR 27, 2011 09:47 PM

Necia said:

Thistle said:

Mantis said:
Absolutely. And I could see how for some people who are suseptible to eating disorders could be triggered by a raw diet. It could make some people go there, without a doubt. But is it it's own disorder or a subset of anorexia? The medical community is saying so far that it is not it's own diorder. That could change, and I hope it does so that differnt treatment options are explored for anorexia and other eating disorders. But for now it is not a disorder.



Just to clarify it's not the raw diet itself that would be considered a disorder. It's the disordered view of food that leads to an obsession with purity and cleanliness and very, very restricted diet.

It seems like we're on the same page here but I just want to be clear that the raw diet in and of itself isn't to me (or I think the medical community) a sign of disordered eating - it's more that this kind of disorder lends itself very well to a raw diet (if this comes to be considered its own disorder).



Right. This orthorexia thing isn't an attempt to pathologize normal behavior; it's an attempt to describe a variety of eating-disordered behaviors, "disorder" being the key word here. Cutting certain foods from your diet is not in and of itself a problem; it is a problem when doing so hinders you from living life. Going on a diet is not in and of itself a problem; starving yourself is.

I get frustrated when people look at the basics of a mental health problem, draw a direct parallel to "normal" behaviors that seem similar to the hallmarks of that problem, and conclude that the problem is therefore normal and therefore not a problem. It happens with depression all the time: "Everyone gets sad. That's normal; that's not a problem. Popping pills so you'll never be sad is wrong/lazy/self-indulgent/weak." Feeling sadness is totally normal. Depression has some similarities to the common feeling of sadness. But they're not the same thing. Having a beer every now and again and being a fall-down-drunk alcoholic have alcohol in common, but they're not the same thing. And following a particular dietary regimen and orthorexia have food and food choices in common, but (wait for it!) they're not the same thing.



That's obvious to us but I guarantee that if this becomes a 'thing' right wingers will tangle veganism and raw diets up in it. Easily.

Psyche

Psyche

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

APR 27, 2011 10:28 PM

Mantis said:
Orthorexics: Those affected may start by eliminating processed foods, anything with artificial colorings or flavorings as well as foods that have come into contact with pesticides. Beyond that, orthorexics may also shun caffeine, alcohol, sugar, salt, wheat and dairy foods. Some limit themselves to raw foods.

Raw diets are very, very healthy. Plus, someone who eats raw most likely pays much more attention to their diets than other people. This doesn't sound like a disorder, and medical professionals haven't declared it as one.



That's mainly what I was looking at. And maybe it was Yahoo's definition of the term (since Yahoo! frequently has a reputation for poorly representing medical terminology and facts). But it seems like the actual definition that was given to orthorexia, in that particular article, was used to denote people with perfectly healthy diets--like it said, "free of artificial colorings, processed foods, and pesticides." But that could just be Yahoo's misrepresentation of the definition.

I can understand how people who take anything to an extreme can be unhealthy. Hell, I see obsession with exercise as a certain type of illness stringently related to body dysmorphic disorder (even though exercise in itself is healthy). But the people who have taken "orthorexia" to extremes appear (to me) to be suffering from a form of anorexia. Since anorexics frequently limit themselves to 1 or 2 foods such as apples and celery.

I think that's why the medical community decided not to include orthorexia in the DSM-V. Because there was worry over whether people who were really anorexic would be mislabeled "orthorexic" and not get the treatment that they needed. That, and lack of substantial evidence of orthorexia being a legitimate disease.

SnakePlissken said:
Any drug you ingest in any form figures into your diet. And plenty of them contain carcinogens, especially crack cocaine. That being said I believe the point she's making is that through your ingestion of such items you are doing the exact same thing as those "typical fat and lazy" people, just in a different way.



Little confused. Why on earth would drugs figure into your diet? Drugs, particularly synthetic ones, don't contain any nutrients or calories like alcohol does. The only exception being drugs like mushrooms, peyote, or San Pedro cactus species.

About drugs:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

My particular brain chemistry actually doesn't enjoy the effects of stimulants (which is why the last time I took any form of cocaine was 6+ years ago), although that's besides the point. But even on those few occasions I DID try crack cocaine (which is less than a handful of times), I made it myself, using baking soda, water, ice, and heat. None of those ingredients are carcinogenic, so are you saying cocaine is?

So... Has it ever been 100% proven (not just theorized) that crack cocaine is carcinogenic? Because to my knowledge, the main danger of crack cocaine is the fact that it's cardiotoxic. It's definitely toxic, I will say that for sure. But is it carcinogenic? Sure, some of the impurities and fillers that result from the illicit drug trade can contain carcinogens, but those can be filtered out with methods such as an acetone wash.

But like I said, I don't particularly enjoy the effects of cocaine and therefore don't really use it, so I haven't bothered to read much about it. If it is carcinogenic, I would love to know however, as I find the subject of chemistry and pharmacology pretty interesting.

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