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8/19/08

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Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 07, 2008 04:55 PM

Camp Inquiry sounds like a camp I wish I could have gone to as a kid.

...Camp Inquiry, which has a secular humanist focus, God takes a back seat to reason. Of course, the camp schedules familiar camp activities like hiking, swimming, and arts and crafts for kids ages 7 to 16; but the thrust of the camp is to teach children to think skeptically about everything, including religion and the supernatural.



This camp is teaching critical thinking. They are teaching children to ask questions, to think and reason for themselves.

"People are like, 'Oh, fossils are planted and they aren't really real," she (Bria Sutherland) says, laughing. "Well, if the whole theory of evolution is just like a ruse or a prank, we've done a really good job. We're really good at pranking people."



You just know this is going to get up certain peoples' noses.

...polls show that people who believe in reason, not God, are among the fastest growing groups in America. And this camp is designed to teach children to investigate and question everything. They study fossils, they learn about morality without religion, they meet an expert who debunks mysteries like weeping icons and ghosts and crop circles.



Wait, what? Morality without religion? Is that even possible?

Thinking: Now with extra awesomesauce.

Kleio

Kleio

Winona, MN
January 2006

AUG 07, 2008 05:08 PM

I want to go too!

In all seriousness, the whole article is really great. I especially liked this:

If atheists and agnostics are in the majority at Camp Inquiry, they're often alone in their schools and neighborhoods, where polls show 9 out of 10 people believe in God. That is why a few hours later, the teenage campers gather in the shade of a large wooden shelter to discuss their situation with D.J. Grothe, whose "Point of Inquiry" podcast has made him a celebrity in the secular community.

"How many of you are out as skeptics?" Grothe asks. He looks around. "I see all but two or three hands raised. When you've come out as a skeptic, have people just flipped out hearing that you don't believe what everyone else believes?"



And this:

After a few more moments, the campers stop pondering the meaning of life and death, and move onto the next important task at hand: hurling water balloons with as much force as Newton's laws of motion allow.

For in the end, these campers are not just budding philosophers. They're also kids.



Seriously. Can I go too?

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

AUG 07, 2008 05:15 PM

I have to applaud the reasoning.

But I also have to say, Camp Inquiry ?! tongue

Is that a scientific method in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?

tongue

ckdexterhaven

ckdexterhaven

USA
December 2005

AUG 07, 2008 05:43 PM

zoom image
Wow. Looks like tons of fun.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 07, 2008 06:16 PM

ckdexterhaven said:
zoom image
Wow. Looks like tons of fun.



Looks like kids everywhere.

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

AUG 07, 2008 06:32 PM

coyotemike said:

ckdexterhaven said:
zoom image
Wow. Looks like tons of fun.



Looks like kids everywhere.



Next door at Camp God, the kids in Ezekiel Cabin are planning a raid on the infidels at Camp Inquiry, with frozen water balloons, india ink-filled balloons, and shaving cream balloons.

Lemonkid

Lemonkid

Canada
May 2003

AUG 07, 2008 07:10 PM

The only summer camp for rational teens is one where you could have buttloads of sex.

ScottrickBurdoit

ScottrickBurdoit

Cheshire, CT
February 2008

AUG 07, 2008 08:50 PM

I don't know man, I'm not a big fan of teaching kids to single out ideologies. Teaching kids to be fair, open minded, and not drilling their heads full of guilt and bullshit ideas and all is cool, but devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots... not really. I mean, I'm not religious at all, I probably agree with most of what they're saying (although I'd love for them to explain outer body experiences), it just seems like a bad idea. What happens if one kids all like "hey, I still believe in the soul anyway", then he's going to be the gullible kid no one plays kick ball with, and that sucks.

MisterLinguist said:
Next door at Camp God, the kids in Ezekiel Cabin are planning a raid on the infidels at Camp Inquiry, with frozen water balloons, india ink-filled balloons, and shaving cream balloons.



If the current political climate is any indication, Camp God is going to wreck their asses... with urine filled Super Soakers.

turin

turin

Denver, CO
October 2003

AUG 07, 2008 08:56 PM

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

AUG 07, 2008 08:56 PM

ScottrickBurdoit said:
I don't know man, I'm not a big fan of teaching kids to single out ideologies. Teaching kids to be fair, open minded, and not drilling their heads full of guilt and bullshit ideas and all is cool, but devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots... not really. I mean, I'm not religious at all, I probably agree with most of what they're saying (although I'd love for them to explain outer body experiences), it just seems like a bad idea. What happens if one kids all like "hey, I still believe in the soul anyway", then he's going to be the gullible kid no one plays kick ball with, and that sucks.



+1

so i guess they want to erase all the religious folk?

crispy

crispy

NEWSWIRE

Philadelphia, PA

AUG 07, 2008 08:56 PM

God is in the details.

MessyJesse

MessyJesse

Roanoke, VA
February 2008

AUG 07, 2008 09:05 PM

ScottrickBurdoit said:
I don't know man, I'm not a big fan of teaching kids to single out ideologies. Teaching kids to be fair, open minded, and not drilling their heads full of guilt and bullshit ideas and all is cool, but devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots... not really. I mean, I'm not religious at all, I probably agree with most of what they're saying (although I'd love for them to explain outer body experiences), it just seems like a bad idea. What happens if one kids all like "hey, I still believe in the soul anyway", then he's going to be the gullible kid no one plays kick ball with, and that sucks.



Teaching kids to question things is not the same as teaching kids to think all religious people are idiots...

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 07, 2008 09:08 PM

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.

sirin

sirin

Santa Fe, NM
November 2007

AUG 07, 2008 09:11 PM

Camp Chomsky sounds way more fun. We're gonna read Syntactic Structures! ooo aaa

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

AUG 07, 2008 09:15 PM

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 07, 2008 09:20 PM

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith



Well, since most of the kids who come to the camp are already athiests, why wouldn't God take a back seat?

MessyJesse

MessyJesse

Roanoke, VA
February 2008

AUG 07, 2008 09:21 PM

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith



I am guessing (as I have never been to this camp nor a church camp) that they put it that way simply because a lot of other kids go to church camps where theology is center stage and there is very little room for argument and/or questioning.

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

AUG 07, 2008 09:37 PM

coyotemike said:

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith



Well, since most of the kids who come to the camp are already athiests, why wouldn't God take a back seat?



and agnostics too. but point taken. maybe it's just me, and maybe i'm just being paranoid, but in the article, i detect a tinge of condescension. it's just in cases like these, i feel i must defend people of faith (those who do not persecute others for lack of beliefs...the 'good' ones so to speak) against those who want to ridicule them. like foe example, i feel sorry for the kid in the article who does believe in god...I just hope he doesn't get talked about negatively behind his back by the other kids.

/my two cents

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 07, 2008 09:41 PM

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith



Well, since most of the kids who come to the camp are already athiests, why wouldn't God take a back seat?



and agnostics too. but point taken. maybe it's just me, and maybe i'm just being paranoid, but in the article, i detect a tinge of condescension. it's just in cases like these, i feel i must defend people of faith (those who do not persecute others for lack of beliefs...the 'good' ones so to speak) against those who want to ridicule them. like foe example, i feel sorry for the kid in the article who does believe in god...I just hope he doesn't get talked about negatively behind his back by the other kids.

/my two cents



I can see that. But the kid did know what the camp was about before he went there. I doubt he's being ridiculed. When I listened to it, he didn't sound like he felt too strongly one way or the other.

MessyJesse

MessyJesse

Roanoke, VA
February 2008

AUG 07, 2008 09:43 PM

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

Cassiel said:

coyotemike said:

turin said:

ScottrickBurdoit said:
devoting an entire camp to teaching kids that religious people are idiots...



who's doing what now?



I don't know where he came up with that idea. This isn't like a reverse Jesus-camp. It is a camp for kids who are interested in reason and secular humanism.



perhaps it's the way the article is written ("God takes a back seat to reason"), but it makes it seem that these people > people of faith



Well, since most of the kids who come to the camp are already athiests, why wouldn't God take a back seat?



and agnostics too. but point taken. maybe it's just me, and maybe i'm just being paranoid, but in the article, i detect a tinge of condescension. it's just in cases like these, i feel i must defend people of faith (those who do not persecute others for lack of beliefs...the 'good' ones so to speak) against those who want to ridicule them. like foe example, i feel sorry for the kid in the article who does believe in god...I just hope he doesn't get talked about negatively behind his back by the other kids.

/my two cents



I would certainly hope that said kid does not get bashed behind his back. But I do understand why some kids would rather go to this camp. As a kid who was often skeptical about religion, I know how it feels to be surrounded by people who think you are a weirdo/heretic/douchebag simply because you question things, and I have a feeling that if I had gone to a religious based camp, this might possibly have happened.

ScottrickBurdoit

ScottrickBurdoit

Cheshire, CT
February 2008

AUG 08, 2008 01:14 AM

MessyJesse said:
I am guessing (as I have never been to this camp nor a church camp) that they put it that way simply because a lot of other kids go to church camps where theology is center stage and there is very little room for argument and/or questioning.



What I'm worried about is them doing the same thing as Christians with Atheism, where one idea is the focus and all others ideas are discouraged and looked down upon. I hate that attitude regardless of the belief behind it. Maybe there isn't anything outright intolerant about it, but just simply the fact they create a camp to accommodate one ideology and disprove others gives an impression of intolerance. It is, in it's nature, creating and perpetrating a divide between people, in a world that already has too much division, especially the world of young people. I think it'd be more productive, and inspiring, to put kids in environments where everyone is completely different, and see them learn to work and explore together.

Then there is just the general attitude of Atheists, which I'm suspect. They do things like call themselves "Brights" and claim they follow "reason", which is just a backwards way of saying they're intelligent and logical and everyone else is just stupid and thoughtless. It's rude, condescending, and just in general not a great attitude toward things, and I'd hate to think they're passing on that attitude to kids.

Maybe I'm stereotyping or cynical, I've never been there or studied the camp or anything, but I can't help but be suspicious of it's effects.

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

AUG 08, 2008 05:11 AM

ScottrickBurdoit said:

MisterLinguist said:
Next door at Camp God, the kids in Ezekiel Cabin are planning a raid on the infidels at Camp Inquiry, with frozen water balloons, india ink-filled balloons, and shaving cream balloons.



If the current political climate is any indication, Camp God is going to wreck their asses... with urine filled Super Soakers.



Boiling urine-filled Super Soakers.

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

AUG 08, 2008 06:13 AM

ScottrickBurdoit Said:


What I'm worried about is them doing the same thing as Christians with Atheism, where one idea is the focus and all others ideas are discouraged and looked down upon.



Of course they are going to encourage the idea that it is better to believe in reality than fantasy. Religion, even the most tolerant of them, does just the same. If you don't stand up for and encourage your beliefs, then why bother even having them? I'm definitely going to look down on people that insist the world is only 6000 years old, and that some magic man in the sky waved his magic wand and poofed everything into creation in 7 days. Why? Because it's not true, and brainwashing kids into believing this drivel is tantamount to child abuse.



Maybe there isn't anything outright intolerant about it, but just simply the fact they create a camp to accommodate one ideology and disprove others gives an impression of intolerance



You are again confusing the concepts of tolerance and respect. You want people to respect others views on religion, not just tolerate them. To tolerate something means that one will allow others to believe and act as they wish without interference, respect is an endorsement of those beliefs. I will tolerate religious belief, but I will never respect it. Maybe the reason these kids need this camp is that they are they victims of intolerance by a society that constantly is trying to ram god down their throat. If you don't think our society is intolerant of atheism, just take 10 people randomly off the street and tell them you don't believe in god. Most of them will give you a look like you just raped a puppy. I made the mistake of coming out to someone at work, and now even a year later, he won't even talk to me and always looks down at me. There's WAY more intolerance coming from the theist side than the atheist side. Name one politician that could possibly get elected after stating that they were an atheist? They'd be torn apart by the media.



It is, in it's nature, creating and perpetrating a divide between people, in a world that already has too much division, especially the world of young people.



You're really going to blame secularists for the division among people? How about the thousands of mutually exclusive (believe our version of fantasy, or you will burn in hell, not get your 76 virgins, etc.) religions around the world that ALL believe that their way is the only TRUE way? Don't you think that is more than a little divisive?



Then there is just the general attitude of Atheists, which I'm suspect. They do things like call themselves "Brights" and claim they follow "reason", which is just a backwards way of saying they're intelligent and logical and everyone else is just stupid and thoughtless. It's rude, condescending, and just in general not a great attitude toward things, and I'd hate to think they're passing on that attitude to kids.



Pot, meet kettle.

"God's chosen people" "The anointed ones" Hell, there's an entire group of them who believe it was OK to take over someone else's country and turn it into their own because god said they could.

What are we called by the religious?

Sinners
Blasphemers
Soulless animals.

What is the problem in teaching your children to make decisions based on science and logic over fantasy? That argument has no validity.



Maybe I'm stereotyping or cynical, I've never been there or studied the camp or anything, but I can't help but be suspicious of it's effects.



Yes, on both counts. But, hey, it's OK to hate and be judgmental towards atheists. We're just a bunch or amoral heathens, according to theists. The effects will be kids that won't be suckered and scared so easily by those trying to control and manipulate them.

Ascanius

Ascanius

USA
October 2006

AUG 08, 2008 06:56 AM

I think I prefer a camp that encourages kids to be intelligent, to a camp that encourages kids to be skeptical.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 08, 2008 07:41 AM

Ascanius said:
I think I prefer a camp that encourages kids to be intelligent, to a camp that encourages kids to be skeptical.



Being skeptical is the basis for critical thinking. These kids are going to have one hell of an advantage when they get to college.

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