Thistle said:
There are around a billion Catholics and they do not all believe the same things, practice the same way, or subscribe exactly to the tenets Rome prescribes.

The ones who do not are not Catholics. The dogma of papal infallibility, the doctrine of papal supremacy as well as the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff kind of forbid it.

Papal primacy ALONE is inherently intolerant. Papal primacy declares that Eastern Orthodox churches are defective because they do not recognize the authority of the pope, that Protestant churches are not true churches and the most egregious of all...papal primacy declares that Roman Catholicism is the only way to salvation.

What I'm trying to tell you here is that the church, on the local level, tolerates people who do not subscribe exactly to everything Rome has to say. You can say they aren't Catholics all you want but they will probably continue to go to church and take communion.

Stiles

Oakland, CA

November 2002

JUN 24, 2008 07:40 PM

MisterSatan said:
Hipster christian, oh your time has come.

You're fired. Get out.

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA

July 2004

JUN 24, 2008 07:48 PM

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Ferretbite said:

Cash said:
The ones who do not are not Catholics. The dogma of papal infallibility, the doctrine of papal supremacy as well as the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff kind of forbid it.

Papal primacy ALONE is inherently intolerant. Papal primacy declares that Eastern Orthodox churches are defective because they do not recognize the authority of the pope, that Protestant churches are not true churches and the most egregious of all...papal primacy declares that Roman Catholicism is the only way to salvation.

The dogma of papal infallibility is not absolute, it is confined to those things that have a "spiritual nature" or a religious significance, according to the Council Vatican II, it is

A charism the Pope enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith, he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals.

According to the
Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-christian religions, proclaimed by Pope Paul VI back in 1965, that vision of papal primacy being an utter display of intolerance is not true.

Their intolerance of homosexuality, divorce, contraception and abortion, however, is pretty hard to beat.

This alleged intolerance is also covered in that document where it says

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion.

Emphasis added to illustrate how the claim that the church actively condemns homosexuality, divorce and contraception is inaccurate. The church does not condemn homosexuals, but the reason why it doesn't approve of gay marriage or encourage homosexuality is pretty obvious: in catholicism, marriage is the union of man and woman, and there are no middle grounds.

Divorce is also not condemned, but it is considered that when two people are united before God, they can not be separated by human law. This doesn't mean that a couple can not break, what it means is that they can't remarry before the Church because they're already wed to somebody else. There are certain exceptions when marriage can be dissolved, but they are fairly rare.

Finally, contraception. Sex is supposed to be the means to perpetuate the species. Contraception means sex out of lust. Pure, undiluted, good old fashioned carnal envy. Which is one of the Big Seven. Add it all up, it spells "Duh".

Abortion is an entirely different animal. The Church believes that human life begins as soon as the egg is fertilized, therefore, in its eyes abortion = murder = no no.

Let's not forget that it wasn't until April of 2007 that the Catholic Church officially abandoned the belief that unbaptized infants go to Limbo.

That is one of those things where Papal infallibility is valid, because it is related exclusively to catholic doctrine. The reason why it was changed was that the Pope considered it would be absurd that God reject the souls of Children only because they haven't been baptized. This may seem like it arrived in way too fucking late for a bunch of people whose children died leaving them worried about their little immortal souls but it also represents a major alteration of dogma.

That being said, I propose a toast to all of us who according to these guys are staying behind, at least we should have a good time.

That's why the Episcopal/Anglican church is the way to go. (Most) of the silly traditions of the Catholic church, with divorce and gay priests thrown in!

Any religion that was founded as a way for someone to bang more chicks has it's priorities straight, you know?

RudieCantFail

Baton Rouge, LA

January 2006

JUN 24, 2008 08:16 PM

Subrosa said:
Any religion that was founded as a way for someone to bang more chicks has it's priorities straight, you know?

It's good to be the King.

turin

Denver, CO

October 2003

JUN 24, 2008 08:40 PM

SoulRiver said:
Dear Loved One Left Behind,
Please go into my apartment and destroy my porn stash.
War Redlegs, see ya later.

I think you're supposed to say, "I'm out."

turin

Denver, CO

October 2003

JUN 24, 2008 08:46 PM

Hooraydiation said:
So yeah, they don't like divorces, but they're not egging people as they leave divorce court, nor are they punching people who buy condoms, they're not blowing up abortion clinics, and they're not hassling unbaptized babies.

if we're going to generalize and say that protestants do these sorts of things, then we have to say that catholics do them too. there are plenty of catholics out there waving around pictures of dead babies and screaming at terrified women through megaphones. and the catholics invented hassling unbaptized babies.

adjunct

Philadelphia, PA

July 2002

JUN 24, 2008 08:46 PM

Subrosa said:
That's why the Episcopal/Anglican church is the way to go. (Most) of the silly traditions of the Catholic church, with divorce and gay priests thrown in!

Well, that and a division from Catholic tradition and commitment to local rule originating with the first missionary in England. It's not just Catholic Lite.

Cash

USA

OLD SKOOL

JUN 25, 2008 05:00 AM

Thistle said:

Cash said:

Thistle said:
There are around a billion Catholics and they do not all believe the same things, practice the same way, or subscribe exactly to the tenets Rome prescribes.

with respect to your opinion, that is not my experience.