NEWS: A Christmas Day Tiger Mauling at the San Francisco Zoo

But you see, the mere insinuation that the kids could have been taunting the tiger not only makes it the truth (despite the apparent facts of the case), but makes the kid deserve to die and the police monsters for doing their jobs.

Write a lie once on the internet and it becomes the truth.

If it sways in the direction of popular opinion that is.

Gotta love the counter culture.

The tiger was aggitated, enclosed, and bored. She was acting in predictable wild animal fashion. Certinly not her fault. The human that taunted her was definatly mean and stupid, but didn't deserve to die. That's quite a harsh punishment. The cops did what they felt they had to do to protect the public. I mean, one human already dead, others ingured, who knows how long it will take to get the tranqulizer gun and shoot it, plus the tiger turned and started coming towards them.... of course they shot it. If the fault lies anywhere, it has got to be the enclosure construction. That tiger should not have been able to escape. Bottom line, unfit cage.

Wouldn't work. Tigers don't eat vegetables.

I had to.

Directed at no one in particular of course....


Pardon me for calling you out on the fact that these 'poor kids' had slingshots on them, are refusing to cooperate, have hired one of the most expensive defense attys in the world to defend themselves, as they meanwhile refuse to even answer calls from the dead kid's father who just wans them to him what happened. Nevermind the witnesses who say these guys were not up to an innocent zoo visit.

DId anyone deserve to be mauled or killed? NO! Was the wall and the gap too small to secure the tiger? Apparently.

Did their cries for help go ignored and were medical personel slow to get to them due to the chaos and fear? yep.

A bit of blame for everyone in this game.

I have not read anything about slingshots. Where did you see that? I have also not read any witness reports, though I admit I have not been plugged in over the past few days. All I know is that the initial reports that they were dangling their legs over the side or that there was a shoe inside the enclosure have turned out to be false.

Moreover, Mark Garagos is not one of the most expensive defense attorneys in the world, nor are they likely paying a substantial fee for his services. Attorneys take these types of cases pro bono, on contingency or on a very, very steep discount for the publicity value. I have no doubt that this is the case here.

As for their lack of statements or communication, I don't really have much to say. However, if I were their attorney, I'd probably tell them to do the same thing regardless of what happened. That doesn't mean they shouldn't talk to the victim's father, but I really don't know what's happened here. No one does.*




*This is my main point.

Link

Yeah, "call usout" on information (which may or may not be credible) that came out today. I'm surprised that we didn't know about it a week ago! Christ, we've heard everything from "the kid helped the tiger out" or "There was a shoe in the cage!!" So I'll wait a couple minutes before I buy the Bart Simpson slingshot defense.

Also, they might, just maybe have hired a lawyer because of all the half-truths that are out there? Or maybe to sue a zoo for, you know, letting a tiger get out of its cage. That might be something you'd let slide, but I wouldn't. I'm also not really concerned that he's an expensive lawyer, and I'm not sure why you would be.

Yeah, I wonder what the punishment should be? You know, beyond being eaten by a fucking tiger?

Listen, no one is saying that people should taunt animals or that these kids were good kids (because, um, for the thousandth time, we don't know). Fact is, a fucking tiger shouldn't get out of its cage. For any reason.

If it weren't for human poachers, they would be able to live out their lives in the wild.

if not for zoo breeding programs, there wouldn't be enough tigers to fend of inbreeding (a large problem in the wild), add to the fact that poachers are still getting to them, and, well, the tiger's kinda fucked, as far as natural life span goes.

That said, the officers did what they had to do, though it's a tragedy all around.

Hmmm.

The whole thing is a tragic chaotic mess.

I think my original post pretty clearly says

Blame is the word I used bc of people's reactions, but let's say responsibility.

If these guys were taunting the tiger as witness accounts seems to suggest, I do believe that as tragic and undeserved as the consequence was, they do *share* responsiblity in that their reckless behavior contributed.

However, yes, the zoo at the top levels down is responsible for having failed to secure the animal. Clearly the zoo should have done more after the first mauling, and then some. I think it is tragic that the kid died in part bc the cries for help were seen as a rouse intially, and because medical personel would not enter the zoo until the lion was secured.

CNN reported on witness accounts of taunting the day the story broke, and the slingshots, the vodka, and the witnesses on were reported on Monday. The brothers refused to talk to investigators or their friend's father long before they hired or received pro bono legal services from someone who is apparently not rich.

True, I was not there and even those who were have different accounts of what happened because it was so chaotic.

True that I got irritated at Subrosa's post bc I did NOT get his point.

True to that it is time to logoff as I am even sick of myself on this site today....

Not that anyone will ever really know what happened here, even after lawsuitarity has played itself out, but in the spirit of ardent speculation, I will say that I am not sure that anyone should be able to torment a big predator in a consequence free environment. Perhaps the zoo should counter-sue for the loss of the tiger.

While the loss of the tiger was tragic, the police were acting with necessary and appropriate force for the greater good.

Regardless of whether a person was mauled, killed, or just scared shitless, the mere fact that the tiger got loose, means that in some fashion the zoo was negligent, because obviously whatever precautions and protocols were in place to ensure that A). the tiger did not escape, and B). the animal could be contained before it caused harm to itself or others were inadequate.

Now, exactly how negligent the zoo was (from minor to great) is what is worth examining, and will determine how liable the zoo was. From what has come out so far, i.e. the previous attack, the grossly outdated enclosure, it would seem that the zoo was negligent in it's precautions taken with this animal.

Regardless of whether or not the animal was provoked, it should not have been able to escape, and consequently both the death of the boy, and the tiger itself are squarely to blame on the zoo.

I never suggested that the police be castigated in any way shape or form for their actions as we currently understand them. They were acting, it seems, within their rights, training, and with the public interest at heart.

Under what legal theory? While some 'duty-of-care' exists in a zoo, when does the patron bear some responsibility for their safety? If the patron in any way facilitates the escape of the animal, I would posit that there is at least a shared responsibility. Given the paucity of available facts at the moment, it is pretty difficult to come to any conclusion. The rather oblique statements by the attorney for the 'victims' lead me to believe they are framing their case assuming the police will find some evidence of idiocy. It seems possible to me that the victims could be charged with trespass of some sort, or the zoo could counter-sue for loss of the tiger.
We really only have: a dead dude and various rumors of slingshots, footprints, a vodka bottle and an attorney and 'victims' who appear to be lining up for a hole shot at some insurance bucks.

I am not terribly fond of zoos. I have been to the SF zoo on a few occasions with my older son and always thought it needed some serious modernizing. Like millions of patrons before and after me, though, I never felt endangered by a lack of care on the zoo's part.

i think that someone had to coerce that tiger to jump over, if she was fine all this time, then why do it now? Animals are precious, and there are people that think that because they are animals they do not have rights,

would you like it if you lived in a enclosed place, without your natural freedoms?

Sorry, I shouldn't have quoted your post in my mine, as it wasn't really a response to yours, but more that yours had been the impetus to my thought process. No, you didn't suggest any fault with the police, but others in the thread have.

I would say the point at which the blame becomes shared is when and if someone were to either A). Enters the enclosure past the prescribed boundaries, or B). as you said, facilitates the escape of the animal. However, I don't believe that merely taunting the creature (if that did in fact take place) qualifies as facilitating the escape. Only an act such as opening a gate or putting a ramp over the moat, etc. would qualify (in my opinion). The fact is the tiger used its natural abilities to exit an inadequate enclosure. That it was provoked into doing so is irrelevant, because there should be no way that an animal should be able to get out of its enclosure unless a person lets it out either by design or through negligence.

From
USA Today:

This implies two things: That the zoo's enclosure did not meet a set of standards for the enclosure that it should have been well aware of, and secondly, that it had no plans to improve the enclosure to those standards until this incident occurred.

So it turns out the tiger was provoked and as we all know the enclosure for this animal was inadequate...
So what have we learned after one dead kid and one dead endangered Siberian tigress?
DO NOT GET DRUNK AND TAUNT ANIMALS AT THE ZOO...
You know the glass between you and the gorillas, orangutans, etc....the animals can shatter that...easily.

well, i guess we're bringing a Darwin award home to SF this year.

it's still tragic and retarded that this happened... just a little more retarded than it was before.