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Nimh

Nimh

Tempe, AZ
October 2002

SEP 20, 2003 08:46 PM

I dont spend past my means and get myself into debt. People keep arguing that painting peoples property will lower its value. I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY. What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood. As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact. I think shit bieng built everywhere is a nuisance. I think ugly grey walls are a nuisance. Too much bad shit going on in the world that I can worry about. I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

Nimh

Nimh

Tempe, AZ
October 2002

SEP 20, 2003 08:47 PM

I dont spend past my means and get myself into debt. People keep arguing that painting peoples property will lower its value. I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY. What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood. As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact. I think shit bieng built everywhere is a nuisance. I think ugly grey walls are a nuisance. Too much bad shit going on in the world that I can worry about. I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

elemental2323721

elemental2323721

I'm lost
December 2002

SEP 20, 2003 11:08 PM

Nimh said:
I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY.

Everything belongs to somebody. At what point, in your opinion, does something become "not personal property"? When it's owned by a business instead of an individual? Oh, you're gracious enough to exempt "small businesses" from your vandalism. At what point is a business no longer a "small business"? When it's owned by "the man"?

What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood.

Oh, I dunno, a sense of decency and personal responsibilty maybe? You're breaking the law by vandalising someone else's property (yes, it is) and you don't care how it affects other people. Real nice attitude. Why not just tag everything then, since by your own admission, you don't give a shit?

As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact.

That's right, and it's the opinion of the majority that vandalism is wrong.

I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

Well, hopefully you'll get busted one of these days. Then you'll have plenty of time to think about it.

Also, you don't seem real happy about someone apparently breaking your window with a pellet gun. Think about that the next time you spray paint someone else's window or wall.

tarbaby

tarbaby

I'm lost
April 2003

SEP 20, 2003 11:14 PM

OH! kchrist, you are fucking BRILLIANT!!!!! love love kiss

aoife

aoife

Hilton Head Island, SC
October 2002

SEP 21, 2003 08:52 AM

mc_thoth said:
I'm surprised at all the anger directed at the graf artists. I guess I never thought much of the presence of graffiti. Skaters, punks and even racial minorities have been accused of lowering property values and being bad for business. I understand that graffiti artists are in violation of the law, which is frustrating to those of us who scrupulously obey every law (like me). I understand that tagged building owners incur the costs of repair. But can we say that it is also the fault of the local government for failing to address what appears to be a persistent problem effectively? Dumping money into surveillance and enforcement is more expensive (and arguably less effective) than coming up with a community based, mutually beneficial (not to mention permanent) solution to the problem. Oftentimes community members must take the initiative. Where I used to live, people had a major nuisance problem with skaters damaging public buildings, private stairwells, curbs, etc. So the people asked the local government to consider turning an empty lot into a skate park. Of course not all skating in public areas stopped, but it was drastically reduced.

The same could be done for graffiti. Give them a wall somewhere that they can paint. have tournaments. Have local shipping businesses give out waste cardboard to practice on. Maybe this is an exercise in wishful thinking, but I think it could probably be done with minimal organizing. Regardless, I'm sure there is a better, less wasteful way to deal with graffiti that hopelessly trying to stamp it out with force.

let's hug tongue



Eep. I'm getting into this...

I really agree with what was said above there. Personally, I think well-done graffiti looks cool, but there's a tough line to walk on when it's ok and when it's not. Is it OK to tag a large business but not a small business? A business vs. a home? A public bridge or signpost? How do you draw the line?

If I had more money, one of the things I'd be donating it to would be places for kids to publicly display their art without having to do it on the side of someone's building.

Last note: when I lived in New Orleans, there was a guy who would go around painting over all the graffiti he saw with the same color of gray paint, no matter what color the building/sign actually was. To me, that was uglier by far than the tag, not to mention, he was also painting on others' property...
Just something to think about. I'm gonna go eat some donuts and write for real now. wink

Stiles

Stiles

New York, NY
November 2002

SEP 21, 2003 10:34 AM

Nimh said:
I dont spend past my means and get myself into debt.



Nice high horse there. Most people have student loans, a mortgage, car payment, unforseen medical bills from being uninsured, etc etc etc- something like that. That is all debt.
But hey, if you want to rent and have roommates your whole life, go for it.
At least you won't be in debt.

Corvus_PDX

Corvus_PDX

Portland, OR
December 2002

SEP 21, 2003 10:54 AM

It can beautify, and it can destroy.
Appropriate action should be taken in both cases.

reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

SEP 21, 2003 01:57 PM

kchrist said:
Nimh said:
I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY.


Everything belongs to somebody. At what point, in your opinion, does something become "not personal property"? When it's owned by a business instead of an individual? Oh, you're gracious enough to exempt "small businesses" from your vandalism. At what point is a business no longer a "small business"? When it's owned by "the man"?

Perhaps when its not owned by a business at all. Not all graffiti is tagging. They are related but separate phenomena. Whats more youre essentially aruing that only those of means have the right to public forums and everyone else can go pound salt. Like it or not there is a perfectly valid argument agaist that. The full wall and incidentally completely legal piece on the bike shop down the street from me is art. The in fact illegal seven foot lettered 10K lumens sign on the building down the street that turns my back bedroom red at night isn't. Screaming property rights and nuisance is quite simply a self-servingly unnuanced analysis that doesn't actually address any of the issues.

What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood.

Oh, I dunno, a sense of decency and personal responsibilty maybe? You're breaking the law by vandalising someone else's property (yes, it is) and you don't care how it affects other people. Real nice attitude. Why not just tag everything then, since by your own admission, you don't give a shit?

Because depite your claims to the contrary, there is a distinction between rights and values. You have a right to the integrity of your property, that doesn't translate to the right for it to be worth a particular value. My property values are far more affected by the guy down the street renting to shitty tennants in his shitty dingbat apartment building than by the graffiti in the other direction. Is he a vandal, or an asshole or is he somehow exempt from his your analysis because his motives are economic not expressive?

As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact.

That's right, and it's the opinion of the majority that vandalism is wrong.

It is not however the opinion of the majority that graffiti is inherently vandalism. Youre bouncing back and forth between two separate points as though they are the same. One has to do with what you own, one has to do with what you don't own and its alleged affect on you. These are separate and unrelated.

Bergalerg

Bergalerg

Saint Paul, MN
August 2007

AUG 16, 2007 10:26 PM

Just scanning through all these comments is very interesting. From hanging out with writers all my life I know this much:

The argument of "it's illegal" doesn't really work. Writers are consciously breaking the law. One might argue that everytime you speed in your car your crime is far worse than graffiti, because speeding has been proven to kill. That's a very weak argument, but there are a lot of laws. We all tend to break some, and disagree with some.

Writers do graffiti because that is their life. It's a bad addiction that is almost impossible to break. When you begin to love the smell of aerosol fumes... when you've caught three felonies but still can't stop... when every single piece of paper in your possession says the same name scribbled a thousand times... then you'll know the love of graffiti.

Writers are hypocrites. I hate seeing some graffiti, I love seeing some graffiti. I hate graffiti on my mom's house, I do graffiti on your moms house. I hate when my things are stolen, I steal paint. Everyone's a hypocrite.

Graffiti to me is a very sentimental subject, it has engulfed my life for nearly 10 years. Understand that it's more than a hobby, and that there are consequences everyone who participates face.

On the other side of the fence, graffiti can look terrible, ruin property values, scare citizens, create stereotypes, fuel bad fires.

Graffiti can also inspire, uplift, expand horizons, amaze and provoke.

It is not just a black and white subject.
Everyone is going to be angry when their shit is ruined. Everyone wants to do things they love. These things conflict.

I love graffiti.

EDIT:
I probably do not share the popular opinion. I love urban decay, abandoned buildings, overgrown fields, train yards, railways, and places I shouldn't be. Different people find an abandoned building to be a nuisance, I find it to be quite beautiful.

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