Anyone here into graffiti?

I dont spend past my means and get myself into debt. People keep arguing that painting peoples property will lower its value. I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY. What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood. As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact. I think shit bieng built everywhere is a nuisance. I think ugly grey walls are a nuisance. Too much bad shit going on in the world that I can worry about. I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

I dont spend past my means and get myself into debt. People keep arguing that painting peoples property will lower its value. I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY. What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood. As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact. I think shit bieng built everywhere is a nuisance. I think ugly grey walls are a nuisance. Too much bad shit going on in the world that I can worry about. I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

Nimh said:
I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY.

Everything belongs to somebody. At what point, in your opinion, does something become "not personal property"? When it's owned by a business instead of an individual? Oh, you're gracious enough to exempt "small businesses" from your vandalism. At what point is a business no longer a "small business"? When it's owned by "the man"?

What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood.

Oh, I dunno, a sense of decency and personal responsibilty maybe? You're breaking the law by vandalising someone else's property (yes, it is) and you don't care how it affects other people. Real nice attitude. Why not just tag everything then, since by your own admission, you don't give a shit?

As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact.

That's right, and it's the opinion of the majority that vandalism is wrong.

I dont have the time to worry about whether your building is worth 100k or 600k.

Well, hopefully you'll get busted one of these days. Then you'll have plenty of time to think about it.

Also, you don't seem real happy about someone apparently breaking your window with a pellet gun. Think about that the next time you spray paint someone else's window or wall.

OH! kchrist, you are fucking BRILLIANT!!!!!

Eep. I'm getting into this...

I really agree with what was said above there. Personally, I think well-done graffiti looks cool, but there's a tough line to walk on when it's ok and when it's not. Is it OK to tag a large business but not a small business? A business vs. a home? A public bridge or signpost? How do you draw the line?

If I had more money, one of the things I'd be donating it to would be places for kids to publicly display their art without having to do it on the side of someone's building.

Last note: when I lived in New Orleans, there was a guy who would go around painting over all the graffiti he saw with the same color of gray paint, no matter what color the building/sign actually was. To me, that was uglier by far than the tag, not to mention, he was also painting on others' property...
Just something to think about. I'm gonna go eat some donuts and write for real now.

Nice high horse there. Most people have student loans, a mortgage, car payment, unforseen medical bills from being uninsured, etc etc etc- something like that. That is all debt.
But hey, if you want to rent and have roommates your whole life, go for it.
At least you won't be in debt.

It can beautify, and it can destroy.
Appropriate action should be taken in both cases.

kchrist said:
Nimh said:
I have stated multiple times, I DO NOT PAINT PERSONAL PROPERTY.

Everything belongs to somebody. At what point, in your opinion, does something become "not personal property"? When it's owned by a business instead of an individual? Oh, you're gracious enough to exempt "small businesses" from your vandalism. At what point is a business no longer a "small business"? When it's owned by "the man"?

Perhaps when its not owned by a business at all. Not all graffiti is tagging. They are related but separate phenomena. Whats more youre essentially aruing that only those of means have the right to public forums and everyone else can go pound salt. Like it or not there is a perfectly valid argument agaist that. The full wall and incidentally completely legal piece on the bike shop down the street from me is art. The in fact illegal seven foot lettered 10K lumens sign on the building down the street that turns my back bedroom red at night isn't. Screaming property rights and nuisance is quite simply a self-servingly unnuanced analysis that doesn't actually address any of the issues.

What Im debating is whether I should give a shit that your property is worth less because I paint on something that is not personal property, in the same neighborhood.

Oh, I dunno, a sense of decency and personal responsibilty maybe? You're breaking the law by vandalising someone else's property (yes, it is) and you don't care how it affects other people. Real nice attitude. Why not just tag everything then, since by your own admission, you don't give a shit?

Because depite your claims to the contrary, there is a distinction between rights and values. You have a right to the integrity of your property, that doesn't translate to the right for it to be worth a particular value. My property values are far more affected by the guy down the street renting to shitty tennants in his shitty dingbat apartment building than by the graffiti in the other direction. Is he a vandal, or an asshole or is he somehow exempt from his your analysis because his motives are economic not expressive?

As far as graffiti bieng a public nuisance, that is an opinion not a fact.

That's right, and it's the opinion of the majority that vandalism is wrong.

It is not however the opinion of the majority that graffiti is inherently vandalism. Youre bouncing back and forth between two separate points as though they are the same. One has to do with what you own, one has to do with what you don't own and its alleged affect on you. These are separate and unrelated.

Just scanning through all these comments is very interesting. From hanging out with writers all my life I know this much:

The argument of "it's illegal" doesn't really work. Writers are consciously breaking the law. One might argue that everytime you speed in your car your crime is far worse than graffiti, because speeding has been proven to kill. That's a very weak argument, but there are a lot of laws. We all tend to break some, and disagree with some.

Writers do graffiti because that is their life. It's a bad addiction that is almost impossible to break. When you begin to love the smell of aerosol fumes... when you've caught three felonies but still can't stop... when every single piece of paper in your possession says the same name scribbled a thousand times... then you'll know the love of graffiti.

Writers are hypocrites. I hate seeing some graffiti, I love seeing some graffiti. I hate graffiti on my mom's house, I do graffiti on your moms house. I hate when my things are stolen, I steal paint. Everyone's a hypocrite.

Graffiti to me is a very sentimental subject, it has engulfed my life for nearly 10 years. Understand that it's more than a hobby, and that there are consequences everyone who participates face.

On the other side of the fence, graffiti can look terrible, ruin property values, scare citizens, create stereotypes, fuel bad fires.

Graffiti can also inspire, uplift, expand horizons, amaze and provoke.

It is not just a black and white subject.
Everyone is going to be angry when their shit is ruined. Everyone wants to do things they love. These things conflict.

I love graffiti.

EDIT:
I probably do not share the popular opinion. I love urban decay, abandoned buildings, overgrown fields, train yards, railways, and places I shouldn't be. Different people find an abandoned building to be a nuisance, I find it to be quite beautiful.