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Bitch_PhD

Bitch_PhD

I'm lost
February 2007

DEC 04, 2007 12:13 PM



Can a man represent women's interests as well as a woman? So asked the New York Times a couple of days ago, in an article about Obama's campaign for women's votes. It's the question at the center of all the arguments that come up any time someone says that women should support Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign--plenty of folks are quite happy to transform that claim into one that the *only* reason to support Clinton is because of her sex, or that the *only* women can represent women's interests. Plenty of folks are prepared to argue that it's just as sexist to support Clinton because she's a woman as it is to oppose her for that reason.

Those claims are obviously false.

So then, why should women support Clinton?

Here's why:

even as he pursues a first of his own — a black president — Mr. Obama, like the rest of the field, has little choice but to compete for women’s votes.


The reason Obama has to court women--in particular, feminist women--isn't just because women are 54% of the electorate, as the NYT explains. It's because for the first time in American history there's a candidate whose presence in the race makes women's issues and feminist issues a primary focus of the campaign. Women voters don't have to choose between two men who may (or may not) give a shit about women's issues based on their positions on everything else; we get a real choice between a candidate who, not coincidentally, is herself a woman and for whom women's issues are central, rather than peripheral, and male candidates who have not, to date, made women's issues central to their political careers.

The question, then, is this: does Clinton's candidacy make enough of a difference? If Clinton isn't the nominee, will Obama or Edwards or Dodd or Richardson continue to focus on women voters and women's issues? Or are they doing so now only in order to win the nomination, and will they, if they win, then go back to the old boy business as usual, in which women's issues don't matter as much as everything else?

Will they explicitly reject "abstinence only" provisions in AIDS funding? Will they see an interview with the authors of Our Bodies, Ourselves as an important platform for their presidential aspirations? Will they insist that FDA nominations be held up until decisions are made about approving contraceptives? Will they introduce legislation to help caregivers access support services?

Clinton has a page on her Senate web site devoted to women's issues. Obama doesn't, nor is there one on his campaign website. Edwards has one on his presidential campaign site; his senate page no longer exists, so I don't know if he had one when he was a senator rather than a presidential candidate.

Yes, there are other issues. Yes, those issues matter to women as well as to men. But it also matters--a lot--that women stop being taken for granted because we don't have a real choice. Whether or not you ultimately decide to vote for her, you should know that Clinton's candidacy does give us that choice.

Bitch_PhD still isn't sure if she'll vote for Clinton in the primary. But by God, I'm glad she's running.


Heathen_Dave

Heathen_Dave

Birmingham, AL
July 2005

DEC 04, 2007 04:20 PM

I'm not really convinced that Clinton actually cares about anything other than being president.

DuMaNue

dumanue

Los Angeles, CA
October 2004

DEC 04, 2007 04:22 PM

I am glad there are now two candidates who are different in a way than any other candidate ever applied for presidency...a non white candidate and a female candidate...both will bring change in my opinion, but what I dont like to see is political issues being degraded into race or gender...clinton being a woman should not impact on any gender issues, she should not pursue female only agenda, same for any other candidates, they should not be avoiding one gender in favor of another, and same with racial issues...no race should be more prominant than another...this is a country of immigrants and as such everyone should be equal, now I stress should, because iits usually not the case...

Short

Short

Sacramento, CA
September 2005

DEC 04, 2007 04:35 PM

Heathen_Dave said:
I'm not really convinced that Clinton actually cares about anything other than being president.



+1

Valeyard

Valeyard

Shreveport, LA
January 2005

DEC 04, 2007 04:35 PM

Not sure about Clinton, but heck she'd be MUCH better than Huckabee! Huckabee scares me quite thoroughly.

ndklinst

ndklinst

New Albany, IN
February 2007

DEC 04, 2007 04:40 PM

Heathen_Dave said:
I'm not really convinced that Clinton actually cares about anything other than being president.


Two_D

Two_D

I'm lost
April 2005

DEC 04, 2007 04:51 PM

DuMaNue said:
I am glad there are now two candidates who are different in a way than any other candidate ever applied for presidency...a non white candidate and a female candidate...both will bring change in my opinion, but what I dont like to see is political issues being degraded into race or gender...clinton being a woman should not impact on any gender issues, she should not pursue female only agenda, same for any other candidates, they should not be avoiding one gender in favor of another, and same with racial issues...no race should be more prominant than another...this is a country of immigrants and as such everyone should be equal, now I stress should, because iits usually not the case...



well put.

erratic_prophet

erratic_prophet

San Diego, CA
December 2006

DEC 04, 2007 04:52 PM

Heathen_Dave said:
I'm not really convinced that Clinton actually cares about anything other than being president.



effstop

effstop

Las Vegas, NV
June 2004

DEC 04, 2007 04:56 PM

clinton in the white house means the same 2 families will have held the presidency for at least 24 consecutive years. THAT is scary. i mean, in addition to hillary being president scary.

tywebb

tywebb

USA
August 2004

DEC 04, 2007 05:31 PM

I'm content if Hillary or Obama gets the nomination and, hopefully, the White House. Say all you want about her politics, connections, or her shifting stances and lack of experience, most of her opponents criticize her because she's an outspoken woman in a position of power. It's a shame that she's such a divisive figure across the US; most of the attacks are without substantial merit. Every paranoid Republican is dusting off the old 90s Hillary bashing tactics. How sad is it that we haven't evolved? I'm ashamed to be a dude sometimes. Go Hillary.

Trahern

Trahern

United Kingdom
March 2003

DEC 04, 2007 05:37 PM

But... but... isn't she evil?

Oh. Right. Woman. Of course. Silly me.

whatever

Seriously, I think it's a bad idea to put her in office; she rubs me the wrong way even before one delves into the issues. Unfortunately, after the Bush re-election, it wouldn't surprise me if she ended up in charge.

Edited to add: No, women are not intrinsically evil. Some ex-girlfriends are, but women in general, not so much. wink

tywebb

tywebb

USA
August 2004

DEC 04, 2007 05:37 PM

effstop said:
clinton in the white house means the same 2 families will have held the presidency for at least 24 consecutive years. THAT is scary. i mean, in addition to hillary being president scary.



Please tell me what's so scary about her landing the job?

furious

furious

I'm lost
March 2005

DEC 04, 2007 05:38 PM

"Plenty of folks are prepared to argue that it's just as sexist to support Clinton because she's a woman as it is to oppose her for that reason.

Those claims are obviously false."

-How in the hell is this a false claim?? A judgement based on sex is a sexist judgement. Just as a judgement based on race is a racist judgement. This is basic introductory logic.

Skywisdom

Skywisdom

Portland, OR
December 2005

DEC 04, 2007 05:41 PM

DuMaNue said:
I am glad there are now two candidates who are different in a way than any other candidate ever applied for presidency...a non white candidate and a female candidate...both will bring change in my opinion, but what I dont like to see is political issues being degraded into race or gender...clinton being a woman should not impact on any gender issues, she should not pursue female only agenda, same for any other candidates, they should not be avoiding one gender in favor of another, and same with racial issues...no race should be more prominant than another...this is a country of immigrants and as such everyone should be equal, now I stress should, because iits usually not the case...



Did you really just suggest that a president should not focus on issues that only affect women? I mean, really?
Suprisingly there are issues which really only affect women. There ARE political issues which are primarily about race too. Just pretending issues which only affect a minority or a gender are somehow superficial doesn't make them so.
I'm really not sure how campaigning for women's rights is some how being unfair or unequal.

Cash

Cash

USA
OLD SKOOL

DEC 04, 2007 05:42 PM

Heathen_Dave said:
I'm not really convinced that Clinton actually cares about anything other than being president.



I couldn't agree with you more.

Alfaduetto

Alfaduetto

Greeneville, TN
May 2004

DEC 04, 2007 05:48 PM

Well, Hilary has got the nomination, whether you're in denial or not. Will Obama be arrogant enough not to take the XO seat? I doubt it. Therefore this ticket will be unbeatable like it or not.

Stiles

Stiles

Miami Beach, FL
November 2002

DEC 04, 2007 05:55 PM

Alfaduetto said:
Well, Hilary has got the nomination, whether you're in denial or not. Will Obama be arrogant enough not to take the XO seat? I doubt it. Therefore this ticket will be unbeatable like it or not.



Am I going to get a parking ticket tomorrow?

SurlyZombie

SurlyZombie

Portland, OR
September 2006

DEC 04, 2007 05:58 PM

Hillary Clinton only gives a shit about women due to the fact that she is, herself, a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if the only thing that she does in office is focus on a few women's rights issues and then get back to whatever crazy agenda she has in mind. The woman is fucking nuts and people need to realize that she's almost in the same category as most of the current conservative candidates before we all make a grave mistake.

I am personally voting for Chris Dodd, and while he might not do as much for women's rights issues, the man may do us some more good on a broader scale. I beg of all of you not to vote for Hillary just because she is a woman. That's the worst decision you could ever make. I'm Jewish, and I didn't vote for Lieberman. Just because they share one trait with you does not make them an ideal candidate.

-D

P.S. And don't give me that "I just want to see Bill as the first man" bullshit.

jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

DEC 04, 2007 06:01 PM

Bitch_PhD said:
The reason Obama has to court women--in particular, feminist women--isn't just because women are 54% of the electorate, as the NYT explains. It's because for the first time in American history there's a candidate whose presence in the race makes women's issues and feminist issues a primary focus of the campaign.



Do you really believe this? Clinton is less focused on women's issues than any other candidate. She only focuses on these issues when she begins to slip in the polls and her staff believes that playing the gender card will increase her position.

I think it is also important to note that the issues you mention in your article are primarily the focus of women on the left. I think that is an important distinction. Are you equally concerned about issues that are the focus of conservative women in this country? I suspect not. So, intellectual honest requires that you distinguish between women's issues and liberal women's issues. That is a whole different conversation.

zothommog

zothommog

Murfreesboro, TN
July 2007

DEC 04, 2007 06:03 PM

furious said:
"Plenty of folks are prepared to argue that it's just as sexist to support Clinton because she's a woman as it is to oppose her for that reason.

Those claims are obviously false."

-How in the hell is this a false claim?? A judgement based on sex is a sexist judgement. Just as a judgement based on race is a racist judgement. This is basic introductory logic.



Why the hell did it take someone so long to say this?

jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

DEC 04, 2007 06:04 PM

One more thing...

As a conservative, I can tell you that nothing excites Republicans more that the idea of Clinton leading the Democratic ticket. The number of skeletons in her closet, coupled with her inability to articulate a consistent position reflecting a core set of values, is a very weak combination. I have no doubt that the Democrats will retain control of the House and Senate, but there is no way they are going to win the White House. There are simply no Democratic candidates that can win.

sy_old

sy_old

Columbia, MO
March 2007

DEC 04, 2007 06:10 PM

Hillary Clinton has no soul. Having said that....

"Plenty of folks are prepared to argue that it's just as sexist to support Clinton because she's a woman as it is to oppose her for that reason.

Those claims are obviously false."

I call bullshit. It's a disfavor to women to vote for one just because she is one. Sorry, Bitch_PhD, I usually agree with you.

Noctua

Noctua

San Francisco, CA
February 2004

DEC 04, 2007 06:14 PM

effstop said:
clinton in the white house means the same 2 families will have held the presidency for at least 24 consecutive years. THAT is scary. i mean, in addition to hillary being president scary.



I joked years ago that presidency after the current Bush, it'd be Clinton for a couple terms, then maybe Jeb Bush, followed by Chelsea Clinton, then one of the Bush twins....

50 years of Bushes and Clintons!

DeathSquad

DeathSquad

Waupaca, WI
November 2003

DEC 04, 2007 06:14 PM

DuMaNue said:
I am glad there are now two candidates who are different in a way than any other candidate ever applied for presidency...a non white candidate and a female candidate.



I'm pretty sure Bill Richardson isn't white, so make that 3 candidates.

CoyoteMike

CoyoteMike

Iowa City, IA
May 2006

DEC 04, 2007 06:14 PM

Hillary is my second choice, behind Obama. I really hope that if one of them gets the nod for prez, the other gets the veep slot. Now there would be a kick-ass ticket!

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