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Rahodeb

Rahodeb

Los Angeles, CA
March 2006

DEC 01, 2007 03:05 PM





It's a sad commentary on American society that approximately 200,000 children under the age of 18 are sent directly or transferred to the adult "justice" system every year. Just par for the course in a country that boasts the highest incarceration rate in the world, I suppose, but shameful nonetheless.



Does trying, sentencing, and punishing children and adolescents as adults produce any kind of positive, productive results? Somehow, temporarily "disposing of" young criminals and "raising" them in lock-up (often with release around age 21) doesn't sound like an ideal solution. Suddenly, some states across the US are starting to re-think their approach to dealing with these children who have, more often than not, already been neglected, abandoned, or abused by their own parents, families, and society at large.

States are rethinking and, in some cases, retooling juvenile sentencing laws. They're responding to new research on the adolescent brain, and studies that indicate teens sent to adult court end up worse off than those who are not: They get in trouble more often, they do it faster and the offenses are more serious.



"It's really the trifecta of bad criminal justice policy," says Shay Bilchik, a former Florida prosecutor who heads the Center for Juvenile Justice Reform at Georgetown University. "People didn't know that at the time the changes were made. Now we do, and we have to learn from it."

Since the early 1990s, kids as young as 10, 11, and 12 have been tried and punished as adults. The general legislative attitude has been "If you do an adult crime, you should be treated like an adult criminal." Those are the words of Jay Hoffman, a Democratic state legislator who had a hand in toughening Illinois juvenile justice laws in 1994, soon after two Chicago boys, aged 10 and 11, dropped 5-year-old Eric Morse to his death from the 14th-story of a vacant public housing apartment. The youngest in United States history to be jailed for murder, they were sentenced to lock-up in a maximum-security juvenile prison, with their release required by the time they turned 21.



Then there was Nathaniel Abraham who, as a sixth grader, shot and killed 18-year-old Ronnie Lee Greene, Jr. Abraham was tried as an adult but sentenced as a child. He ended up being sentenced to eight years of juvenile detention with a mandated release at age 21.



Then we have Lionel Tate, who, at age 12, killed 6-year-old Tiffany Eunick by "imitating professional wrestling moves" he had seen on TV. He was tried as an adult, convicted of first-degree murder, released after three years in prison and given year of house arrest and 10 years of probation. He violated his house arrest when he was discovered outside of his home and in posession of a knife. Soon after that, he was arrested for robbing a Domino's Pizza delivery guy at gunpoint, for which he received a 30-year sentence.



Last, there's the case of Reginald Dwayne Betts, who was locked up at age 16 for an armed carjacking. He was sentenced as an adult and spent more than eight years behind bars, most served in adult prisons.



These days, some states are beginning to reconsider life without parole for teens, as well as focusing on raising the age of juvenile court jurisdiction. Better yet, some are even "exploring ways to offer kids a second chance, once they're locked up_or even before."

The net was thrown too broadly," says Howard Snyder, director of systems research at the National Center for Juvenile Justice. "When you make these general laws ... a lot of people believe they made it too easy for kids to go into the adult system and it's not a good place to be."



"There has been a huge sea change ... it's across the country," says Laurie Garduque, program director at the MacArthur Foundation, which has worked extensively on juvenile justice reform. "It certainly helps that there has been a decline in juvenile crime and delinquency."

It seems a promising and long overdue step toward rationally dealing with people and situations that are not one dimensional, but often hugely complex. Children who commit criminal acts are symbols of society gone awry: oftentimes victims of poverty and neglect, they represent larger issues in their neighborhoods, cities, and cultures. Mindlessly treating them with the concept of "adult crime, adult time" and throwing them into a prison system that greatly lacks rehabilitative programs is a grave disservice to the country as a whole.

Toku666

Toku666

Columbus, OH
May 2004

DEC 01, 2007 04:34 PM

Here's hoping we can figure out how to make this a place that views children as the heirs of society, and not some sub-human resource. Not throwing them in jail seems like an odd first step to have to accept.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

DEC 01, 2007 04:48 PM

I wonder what the statistics are on minority vs white children and adult sentences?

gcash056

gcash056

Orlando, FL
October 2004

DEC 01, 2007 04:56 PM

You ever stop to think it has nothing to do with the prison, and there's just something WRONG with these people?

> two Chicago boys, aged 10 and 11, dropped 5-year-old Eric Morse to his death

Yup, lock them up and never let them out.

> shot and killed 18-year-old Ronnie Lee Greene, Jr

Ditto.

> killed 6-year-old Tiffany Eunick by "imitating professional wrestling moves"

OK, that sounds like an honest mistake. Just goes to show professional wrestling shouldn't be on before 10pm. Or how about never. Never is good enough for me.

> locked up at age 16 for an armed carjacking

This guy needs to be more than locked up. I'll personally throw the "fry him" switch. And I'm not kidding, trying to make a point, or using hyperbole. I mean he needs to die.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

DEC 01, 2007 05:00 PM

Toku666 said:
Here's hoping we can figure out how to make this a place that views children as the heirs of society, and not some sub-human resource. Not throwing them in jail seems like an odd first step to have to accept.



That would be dangerously sensible behaviour. I wish you luck.

StarBelliedBoy

StarBelliedBoy

Philadelphia, PA
December 2003

DEC 01, 2007 05:07 PM

Yeah, they should just give them the death penalty and save society the trouble of fearing them.

KushielsScion

KushielsScion

Gardendale, AL
May 2004

DEC 01, 2007 05:12 PM

Sorry, some children do belong in prison.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

DEC 01, 2007 05:19 PM

GunNut said:
Sorry, some children do belong in prison.



Also, we should shoot them.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

DEC 01, 2007 05:19 PM

GunNut said:
Sorry, some children do belong in prison.



A shocking opinion.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

DEC 01, 2007 05:38 PM

gcash056 said:
You ever stop to think it has nothing to do with the prison, and there's just something WRONG with these people?





Children who commit criminal acts are symbols of society gone awry: oftentimes victims of poverty and neglect, they represent larger issues in their neighborhoods, cities, and cultures.



You could always try reading the article.

ink_slinger

ink_slinger

Edmonton, AB
October 2005

DEC 01, 2007 06:02 PM

gcash056 said:
> locked up at age 16 for an armed carjacking

This guy needs to be more than locked up. I'll personally throw the "fry him" switch. And I'm not kidding, trying to make a point, or using hyperbole. I mean he needs to die.



Even thought you say that you're not kidding, I really hope that you are. Seriously, you think a guy should be EXECUTED for carjacking? Based on the information provided in the article, he didn't kill anyone, so it would seem to me that killing him is kind of an over-reaction.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

DEC 01, 2007 06:05 PM

ink_slinger said:

gcash056 said:
> locked up at age 16 for an armed carjacking

This guy needs to be more than locked up. I'll personally throw the "fry him" switch. And I'm not kidding, trying to make a point, or using hyperbole. I mean he needs to die.



Even thought you say that you're not kidding, I really hope that you are. Seriously, you think a guy should be EXECUTED for carjacking? Based on the information provided in the article, he didn't kill anyone, so it would seem to me that killing him is kind of an over-reaction.



I think gcash06 should be executed for thoughtcrime, personally. I mean, he seriously wants him to die.

Cheyenne

Cheyenne

SUICIDEGIRL

USA

DEC 01, 2007 06:12 PM

I'm sorry....I just don't see how 18 is such a magic number...If these kids purposely killed someone, they don't belong in society. You know it is wrong to kill at a pretty early age. Saying they didn't know any better is just a complete cop out.
However, I don't think that child who was convicted due to the wrestling moves intended to kill the girl.
And I have to agree with Ink_slinger....carjacking hardly warrants the death sentence. BUT that kid was waaaaayyyyy old enough to know what he was doing so jail time is completely justifiable. (spelling??)

herbancowboy

herbancowboy

San Francisco, CA
June 2004

DEC 01, 2007 06:16 PM

We're also locking up kids who didn't do anything wrong.

The day Mustafa Elmi turned 3 years old he had to report to his cell three times for headcount. To be able to get one hour of recreation inside a concrete compound sealed off by metal gates and razor wire he had to pin his picture ID to his uniform.

Link

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

DEC 01, 2007 06:18 PM

Cheyenne said:
I'm sorry....I just don't see how 18 is such a magic number


But it's a marker, a representation of an actual scientific fact that children and adolescent brains do work differently from the brain of a full-fledged adult. My opinion of a 17-year-old being tried as an adult is very dependent on the situation. But I will never, never support trying a 13-year-old as one, and neither should anyone else.

herbancowboy

herbancowboy

San Francisco, CA
June 2004

DEC 01, 2007 06:18 PM

Cheyenne said:
I just don't see how 18 is such a magic number


Try reading on for size:

They're responding to new research on the adolescent brain, and studies that indicate teens sent to adult court end up worse off than those who are not: They get in trouble more often, they do it faster and the offenses are more serious.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 01, 2007 06:22 PM

The OP seems to leave the impression that juveniles going through the adult criminal-justice process means they go to adult prisons. As the linked article says, that is not the case.

Some teenage criminals do need to be locked up, for the protection of society. And some crimes are serious enough that a sentence ending at age 21 simply isn't enough.

I agree that the focus should be more on rehabilitation than it is. But that could be said of the adults in prisons, as well.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 01, 2007 06:25 PM

herbancowboy said:
Try reading on for size:

They're responding to new research on the adolescent brain, and studies that indicate teens sent to adult court end up worse off than those who are not: They get in trouble more often, they do it faster and the offenses are more serious.


What you're overlooking is the fact that those who go to the adult system are more likely to have committed serious crimes than those who aren't.

stinkypants

stinkypants

Overland Park, KS
March 2007

DEC 01, 2007 06:37 PM

i suppose its all about the knowledge and intent of the wrongdoing
those old enough and having the mental faculties to reason right and wrong should surely pay for the act committed

accidents through stupidity ....well there are those who do like wrestling....befuddling isnt it?
of course the parents of these miscreants should also suffer some punishment for criminal negligence as a parent if nothing else

StarBelliedBoy

StarBelliedBoy

Philadelphia, PA
December 2003

DEC 01, 2007 06:41 PM

bald_eagle said:

herbancowboy said:
Try reading on for size:

They're responding to new research on the adolescent brain, and studies that indicate teens sent to adult court end up worse off than those who are not: They get in trouble more often, they do it faster and the offenses are more serious.


What you're overlooking is the fact that those who go to the adult system are more likely to have committed serious crimes than those who aren't.



You'd think that'd be obvious.

PaulNikon

PaulNikon

Melbourne, FL
February 2003

DEC 01, 2007 07:27 PM

Sounds un-american to me.

unfiltrator

unfiltrator

San Francisco, CA
April 2004

DEC 01, 2007 07:37 PM

Kids are still forming their brains for Pete's sake. To say that they can learn is an understatement.

People are trashing teenagers no matter how well behaved they are. It's a fact. So if a teen gets involved in a crime adults want to throw the book at them. People are just scared of the amount of energy and stupidity that teenagers have, and teens are just as amazed and scared themselves. They didn't plan on being a teen.

However you feel about it there is a great Frontline documentary available for free viewing. In my mind Frontline, which usually airs on PBS, makes first class journalism.

When Kids Get Life

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

DEC 01, 2007 07:59 PM

bald_eagle said:
The OP seems to leave the impression that juveniles going through the adult criminal-justice process means they go to adult prisons. As the linked article says, that is not the case.

Some teenage criminals do need to be locked up, for the protection of society. And some crimes are serious enough that a sentence ending at age 21 simply isn't enough.
I agree that the focus should be more on rehabilitation than it is. But that could be said of the adults in prisons, as well.



From the article

"The juvenile correctional system is more rehabilitative or treatment- oriented," says Donna Bishop, a criminal justice professor at Northeastern University in Boston. "The adult system, for the most part is a warehouse where (kids) spend a great deal of time with older, more seasoned, more serious offenders, many of whom talk about becoming a better criminal."

Reginald Dwayne Betts knows firsthand. He spent more than eight years behind bars in Virginia for an armed carjacking. An honors student who had never been in trouble with the police, he says he expected he might be sent to a juvenile detention center or even receive a suspended sentence.

Instead, he was tried as an adult. When he was originally sentenced to 23 years, he says, he didn't know the difference between the terms "consecutive" and "concurrent."

Locked up at 16, Betts spent most of his time in adult prisons.

"Of course it makes a difference if you're 15, 16 or 17," he says. "You're not prepared to deal with it physically or emotionally. You're trying to deal with being away from home. You're trying to deal with the stress that comes with being in prison."



and while this doesn't speak for every case it agrees with my personal experience. If they decide to try you as an adult that means adult time.

semiretiredpunk

semiretiredpunk

Evansville, IN
March 2007

DEC 01, 2007 08:02 PM

The growth of the prison-industrial complex and the "tough on crime" groupthink mentality are grave disservices to our country as a whole.

Tallboy66

Tallboy66

USA
January 2005

DEC 01, 2007 08:42 PM

GunNut said:
Sorry, some children do belong in prison.



Well some do need help, prison? I don't think so.

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