NEWS: Feeling Poorer? Paycheck Not Lasting as Long? You're Not Alone.

This is one of the most thought provoking threads I've read in a while.

Coming from a country that has a very well established (even overdeveloped by some standards) social security system I can say that the idea of a government provided safety net is not one that will lead to "tyranny and oppression". If anything I see more of this happening in the USA right now than could even be possible under Dutch law (the way it is at the moment... we have a few politicians here who have some very messed up ideas).

People do not cover each others backs as often as your philosophy seems to believe we would. That is the essential necessity of a government system. The need for a central organization to get the jobs done and provide the services society would not provide out of its own accord. Including, IMHO, providing people with enough means to feed themselves and their families when they are unable to do s themselves.

That this necissary system is one prone to corruption and abuse of power is a sad fact of life. I wish I knew a solution for that.



On a side note:

To all Americans: Please stop complaining about your gasoline prices. Here in The Netherlands we pay (at the current exchange rate) over $7.50 a gallon.

Hearing abou how little you have to pay depresses me.

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Seriously though: Your comments (if sometimes a little inflammatory) are well thought out. The stuff that sparks debate. Exactly what a good political commentator should do.

Kudos for that.

Nah, I just always compare the cost of things to smoking cigarettes when people complain about cost. Things that also work are getting starbucks before work, or seeing a movie every week.

Unless you are having a lot of sex, condoms are cheaper than all of those.

as it stood, i was not making enough money to save up THAT much. i'd say a lot depends on WHERE you live just as much as HOW you live. at any rate, i personally would prefer to save money rather than live it up...because i know what happens when something unexpected happens and you don't have any money saved up. i just didn't have the option of saving money before. now i have that option, and you can bet i do.

and then we have the people who had no parents and were raised by .... ta dah! the government in the form of state-run institutions because they had no parents.

what if you do none of those things? haha, i suppose you could always just steal your condoms from the local 7-11...well, anyway, off i go.

But it's a ridiculous comparison. Most people who are low on cash don't get Starbucks (or Tim Hortons, here in Canada ) on a daily basis, or go to the movies, or buy cigarettes. Sure, there is always the odd jackass who smokes a pack a day and bitches that he has no money for food, but I don't think that is as nearly as common as some think.

Yes you can live on less and cook at home and save money, shopping at 7-11 may cost more but in order to save at the huge super big chains grocery stores you have to buy really big super huge quantities.

Ever go in to a Sam's club or Walmart of course you can buy 4 boxes of granola for $5 or ramen noodles mega jumbo pack of 25 for $6.50 but do you really want to eat granola, pasta, ramen for the next 2 weeks every day?

Actually, I've done that often, so I can buy real groceries for my son. And everytime I do that, I'm grateful he's only 4, and doesn't eat much yet. I'm not bad with money, I don't have cable, my internet is free, I only have one phone line, I don't smoke, do drugs, my boyfriend pays for condoms, and I get a lot of help with gas money in exchange for giving people rides places I was going anyway, but I STILL don't make enough to feed us both healthy food. It happens. Not all the people who are in this situation are idiots - just the ones shopping at 7-11.

Well the thing is if you have $20 bucks to last a week 7-11 wouldn't be you best bet for money usage but unless you want to buy 2-4 items at walmart/sams club and have 5 pounds of the exact same thing to eat for the next week I can totall understand going to 7-11.

I do the same thing. I know I could eat at home, make pancakes, have a soy burger and a baked potato but will opt for a sandwich or a restaraunt.


And how about that Social Security thing coming our way?

Too many boomers are going to retire and then too few workers are going to be contributing to SS so... I see 100's of dollars taken out of my checkevery month and then not only is it inadequate for the people who need it now it will probalby not even be there when I need it .
Good thing I've got $1,100 in a 2% savings account to get me through the tough times and help me plan for my retirement.

I know this doesn't relate to the cost of food or gas , but what about the rising cost of insurance? Every year our health and life insurance goes up. And we don't even use it that much. There have been times when I have begged him to drop my coverage just so we will have more money for the things we need.

We do not live an extravagant life, we have a mortgage, and one car note. The other is paid for. We are able to save some money, so we do have something for emergencies. But sometimes it is hard not to use that just to get through the month. Nothing else except the basic utilities. I stay home now because the cost of child care was eating my paycheck. He has to do extra work on top of the 60 hours a week he works at his job.

Sometimes I just don't know how we do it.

Well, sure, buying in extreme bulk is the *cheapest* way to get food, but it's really the sort of thing that's best suited to people with a bunch of cash, a vehicle of their own, and a lot of storage space. Plus a family, ideally.

Food is still substantially cheaper and more varied at a regular grocery store, or the grocery section of stores like Target and (sigh) Wal-Mart, than it is at a 7-11 or other convenience store.

Where you shop for food is not a binary between convenience stores and bulk warehouses. Supermarkets are right in the middle and that's why most people shop at them.

Just a little reminder from earlier in the thread...

True.
Maybe it's just my area I live in but even the local grocery store sells patio furniture, plants,etc... and I have to buy 10 for $10 , 4 for $4 etc...deals everywhere, it still is cheaper than 7-11 but in order to compete with cheap bulk "we have everything you don't need" stores they have to offer the same deals or raise prices.
If you don't buy the special deal then you get a higher price, so for me to pay $1.89 for one hot dog is a better use of my money than to pay $2.99 for 8 hotdogs and eat 2 then 3 weeks later throw 6 away with freezer burn.

Last thing.
The majority of my life I've been able to have maybe one meal at home if you count a granola bar (4 boxes for $4) or a bowl of oatmeal (2 for $3) as breakfast then I may get 2 meals in so to keep from going hungry it's fast food or stores like 7-11, or the old standby of PBJ and potato chips.

Now if I could only get a job at Whole Foods again and get some employee discounted food then...

Couple examples about that.
I live directly behind a strip mall with a grocery store in it, go West it's 6-7 MILES to the next store then of course there are 4 and a couple drug stores so where do you go at 11:30 after you 2nd shift job?
When I lived in Detroit the grocery store closed at 10 pm.

Not too mention the fact that it can take several hours JUST to get to the Grocery store and back using mass transportation to a decent, cheap grocery store for the people, myself included, that had/have no car in most cities.

whole foods is crazy expensive even with the discount. the only people i know who feed their families from whole foods have $2000.00 a month to spend on groceries.

True but it is healthier, plus I'm tired of going to the store. buying apples that are a good price then taking it to work and guess what it's all soft and waaaaay past it's prime. so I spent .49 on an apple I threw away instead of .89 I could actually eat.

The stores get to write off the produce as a loss so it really makes no difference if they get good quality or not and fruit is something you can't really buy in bulk and keep for 2 weeks.

Mini rant unrelated to your comment.

I do agree that there is a real issue for many here. But I think we do have to keep in mind that, while for many this is a harsh reality, for many who are considered or more often consider *themselves* to be having financial difficulties it is a spending habit issue.

I've lived on just about every level of the financial spectrum so far from homeless, no job, food when I could get it every few days to ultra-comfy. The only place I've (sadly, haha) not been is "rich" to any degree.

And I'm daily boggled by those I know who are "struggling"... who are doing Excellent for themselves.

The folks complaining about living paycheck to paycheck, but live in an apartment well above what they need to pay on rent for something big enough for them.

The family complaining that they can barely afford groceries but you find out the reason is that they don't want to buy rice, vegetables, beans and cook but rather buy everything single-serving and pre-packaged, costing them the same for one meal as would feed them for a two or more days.

The parent's on welfare and borrowing money from friends for their kid's diapers... but have cable tv & internet, a widescreen tv, xbox, psp, and a new car...

The single friend who is complaining they're broke when they make $30K a year while you live on less than $15k and have money to spare on frivolousness each month because you don't consider going out partying every weekend (and then some sometimes) a necessity of life.

The "parents" who only make enough to comfortably have and raise X number of children but actively choose to have more than that... over and over.

There are many, many people who are honestly having a terrible time with the way our economy is going. Wages being less than what is needed, prices climbing upward... And this desperately NEEDS to change.

But... *shrugs* Maybe my experiences are skewed from dealing with so many military families over the past decade or so. I do admit that they tend to be some of the biggest offenders in the list of examples I gave above that I've seen repeatedly, over and over and over. But those examples haven't been rare for those civilian folks I've known, either.

It's likely also skewed because I *have* been up and down the financial scale a few times and now live well below what most folks think is an acceptable income but am living in what in reality I know is luxury because I've been at those worse levels before. Due to those times on the bottom end of the spectrum, I'm aware that most people's idea of "struggling to survive" is really "my preferred lifestyle is inhibited/unattainable". These are two very different things.

There are two groups being addressed in this same OP: The genuine Have-Nots and the Have-Not-What-I'd-Likes. The former need help and opportunities, the latter really shouldn't be compared to them.

You could go to your local health clinic or Planned Parenthood and get them for free or paying what you can if you can.

Ugh, I just read more of this thread and realize I shouldn't have responded. It's gone beyond dumb in spots.

I admit, as with all people, my experience shapes my world view. Walking and hitching 7 miles rather than going without condoms was a trade-off I was willing to accept. And going without sex when BC wasn't an option.