NEWS: Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon. Be Proud of It.

Actually, lost muscle tone can always be regained. The incontinence issue, if it is a result of lost muscle tone, the doctor will tell you how to regain it. If it is a result of the bladder dropping, which is somewhat common after multiple births, then you will often need surgery to rectify it, because it will only get worse if left alone.
As for decreased sexual enjoyment, it's all about the Kegals! They will tighten you up better than any surgery.

Of course I didn't mean to make it sound like all women were brainless idiots who want to look like Rachel on Friends. But whether or not anyone wants to admit it, there are many women out there who buy into the Hollywood stereotype as to what is considered pretty. And I said earlier, you don't have to like your stretchmarks, let alone see them as "beautiful, miracle tree roots of life". But you do have to deal with them. And I don't believe I said anywhere that women define themselves by having children, and that once you do, you become Momma and nothing else.

Of course nobody wants to lose the body they had before pregnancy. I've never disputed that. But, again, you have to deal with it.The risks from surgery are much higher than from having another child (in Canada, 1 in 25,000 women die in or soon after childbirth, whereas 1 in 5,000 die during or soon after liposuction, and 1 in 2,500 during or soon after abdominoplasty). So your 5 times more likely to die during lipo, or 10 times more likely during a tummy tuck.

For the record, I do know people who have had cosmetic surgery, and I don't judge them for it. I just wouldn't do it personally, and if a friend asked me, "Do you think I should?" I would say no, because the risks are too high for my comfort level. But, again, that's me. Other people obviously have different levels of comfort.

i believe it's not as easy for a man to understand what it's like to be a woman in america, and to be expected to live under such impossible standards of beauty, and to have people comment on your weight when you're 5'5" and weigh over 120 lbs like you're some sort of obese freak. everyone is entitled to an opinion, but i believe that i have a tremendous amount of confidence, yet it doesn't stop from making me feeling bad when i open up a victoria's secret catalogue.

>sigh< THIS is why i love SG~! no other site would have so many people agree with everything in my brain. yay!

I agree with all of this, but I also think the societal standards of beauty for men are becoming more ridiculous as well. Cases of men with poor body image are increasing, so in some cases I think men can understand.

Okay, So what about when in 10, 20, 30 years that these surgeries become safer. The statistics show that you are just as likely to die during/after childbirth as you would any type of abdominal cosmetic surgery... does your opinion change?

Are we really mad at the RISK involved as much as the pure vanity involved?

But I agree with you on a lot, there is nothing wrong with feeling comfortable with your body. Lord knows low self confidence can be one of the most detrimental things to a person. Maybe we're not all striving for perfect beauty, but I think all of us will always want to look in the mirror and go "Not bad at all, if I do say so myself"

These women are the victims of an incurable illness known as being "human." The symptoms include dissatisfaction with one's self and the overwhelming, driving urge to be something greater than what they are. There will always be new pills, creams, and surgeries but there will never be a cure for the human condition. The gnawing desire to be desirable, attractive, and youthful has been a part of human culture since our distant ancestors first grunted at the Moon and wondered what it was. This isn't the result of some insidious "beauty culture" being jammed down our throats. The beauty culture is the result of our own insidious basic instincts.

You ever wonder why peacocks have such large tails and bright, colorful bodies?

There's nothing wrong in wanting to look good and feel good about your body, but defiantly not at the expense of your life. People are finding the easy way out of things, no matter the price. Eat right and exercise, there are plenty of sites on the net that give you guides to what you can do to get your "girlish" figure back.
My mom had me and my brother, 2 years apart, and found time to work out. I'll you something, shes a sexy bitch without taking pills or doing any type of surgery.

Those are really bad cases, but you don't know. When they were pregnant they could have used it as an excuse to eat all of the wrong things, do no exercise and be lazy; thus gain so much weight that would have not have happened naturally.

Then when you lose the weight you'll have all of that stretched out skin.
Ecpecially if you were older...

I think you and I are actually in agreement Salura, we've just chosen to express it in different words.

It certainly is much tougher for women to deal with issues of beauty. The sheer amount of media exposure/pressure is, as you rightly put it, insane. But as KilledByLenore said, the problem does exist for men as well. Oh, and on a tangent, this certainly is not only a problem "in america". It truly is a global issue. Though it may take different forms in different parts of the world. A good example even made FTR's weekly roundup a while back.

Anyone who tells you that 5'5"/120lbs even comes close to obese is themselves a complete freak. One in need of a serious reality check (and most likely a good slap!). I know it's hard not to be pressured by the standards society and the media uphold. No matter how insane and genuinely impossible they are. I think Baz Luhrman said it best:

The Rabbi also says,

Also absurd.

In our lizard brains, at the deepest level of psychoanalytic urge, the essence of a woman's appeal to a man is his desire to be reborn through her. When you're in touch with that, and with the woman who fully evokes it, there's nothing more erotic than awareness of her life-giving, nurturing aspects sensed in the totality of her being.

Fuckin' hot. (Literally.)

To separate the notions of woman/wife/mother as is suggested is a bit off.

With due respect to his office, I feel the good Rabbi reveals only his personal neuroses.

That's a really good question actually... it made me stop and think about it, and you are right - it's not just the risk involved that bothers me, it's the risk involved for something as superficial as looking good. I honestly didn't realize it until I read your post and thought it over.

I think about the sheer number of women I know that are trying to diet, trying to get skinny, not because it is healthier for them, but just because they want to look "better". Most of them aren't even overweight (by medical standards), but they just aren't happy with themselves because they don't have a tiny waist accentuated by a big rack. And I'm just as guilty of it myself. I went through a few weeks not long ago where I felt absolutely horrible about how I looked, until my husband figured it out and said, "Why the hell are you so worried about it? You just had a baby 2 months ago, lighten up on yourself!" But I felt like every time I went somewhere, people were looking at me and thinking, "God, why doesn't she lose weight? She looks so fat." In all fairness to myself, I think I was going through a bit of post-partum depression, so that probably didn't help.

It's sad that so many women are affected by such ridiculous notions of what we are "supposed" to look like.