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Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

SEP 21, 2007 05:14 PM

Bitch_PhD said:

Evilgasm said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

I know someone who is currently in a situation like this. Abusive (live-in) boyfriend and an 8 year old son. She's left him twice before. One time she took him back in (in her words because he had no where else to go and she couldn't bring herself to let him live on the street), the second time she got dragged back.

She says they stay together for the sake of her son, but she's let slip that she's just plain scared he'll find her and drag her back again.

There is help available here. Pretty good help from what I understand. I've talked to her about it (as well as a mutual friend who also knows about the situation) and understand that it has to be her choice to leave (or kick him out*, since the house is in her name). She has to be ready for it.

*I know this would require police assistance. Something that doesn't help matter truthfully.

Right now she seems to scared to go for help. I know she wants to leave him. Permanently this time. The questions I really want to ask are: how can she get past her fear and get out of the situation? And is there anything I can do to help?



SPOILERS! (Click to view)

If she's scared he'll find her, then that's something you, and she, should take Very Seriously. The fact that she has a child with the man complicates the situation enormously. See the tagline to the post.

What she needs--and you can help her with this--is to find out what the legal situation is vis-a-vis the child, first. If she leaves and takes the child, will the law back the abuser's attempts to find them? Will it give him access to the child? Because if it will, then staying with him might indeed be the best thing she can do for the kid, sad to say: if he "loses" her he might turn his anger on the kid.

If she needs documentation of his abuse in order to keep the child from him, then she needs to get that documentation. Find out what's needed--see if you can contact a lawyer on her behalf, perhaps.

She will need to be very sneaky; if the man finds out that she's making plans to leave, then she might be in danger. You can help her here, by getting information for her and making plans at her direction.

When she leaves, she may need to disappear. That means if she has a job, she might need to quit it; if she has a car, she might need to ditch it and get another one; she might need to have no visits from family or friends, no going to places she used to frequent. The kid might need to be pulled out of school and away from any friends. They might need to leave town. They might need a lawyer who is willing to help hide her or serve as a proxy--receive any papers for her, etc., and then there might need to be some way to get those papers to her without anyone's being followed. All that stuff takes a lot of planning, and you can help her with that.

Do a little research about how to disappear for her, and talk to a lawyer. That would be where I'd start.



Anotheer thing for her to check into, if she is concerned about what may happen if/when her ex has visitation, is the possibility of only supervised visitation, ie. with his family, if she is comfortable with them. I can't see any judge turning that down if the reason for the split is domestic abuse.

RedBstrd

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA
April 2004

SEP 21, 2007 05:24 PM

Archaneus said:
I can only think of one other situation in which I didn't think the writing of Bitch_PhD was heavily nazi-feminist ...



I don't think that word means what you think it means.

irregulara

irregulara

I'm lost
July 2007

SEP 21, 2007 05:33 PM

Please read this entire series:

http://www.cleveland.com/johanna/

If that doesn't make you sick, nothing will.


Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

SEP 21, 2007 05:33 PM

Every time I hear someone compare feminists to nazis I think "if I hear that stupid fucking comparison one more time I'll scream".

Unfortunately if I actually screamed every time I heard that stupid fucking comparison I'd lose my voice.

starblood

starblood

Horsham, PA
March 2006

SEP 21, 2007 07:24 PM

Of course it's not easy but on what planet is that a valid excuse for anything? If you want to stick it out yourself that's one thing but if you have a child you have a responsibility.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

SEP 22, 2007 12:29 AM

Morgan said:
Every time I hear someone compare feminists to nazis I think "if I hear that stupid fucking comparison one more time I'll scream".

Unfortunately if I actually screamed every time I heard that stupid fucking comparison I'd lose my voice.



S'ok, you don't need your voice to type wink I know what you mean though.

I understand why it can be hard to leave, but I can't understand not getting my kids out of a situation like that. I don't care who it is, you go near my kids, I rip your fucking head off, whether you're my husband, a random criminal, the Prime Minister, the Pope, whatever. My kids come before anything and anyone in the world. Even if they aren't being touched, seeing and hearing me being abused is going to warp the way they look at male/female relationships forever, and I would never set them up to be abused or to be abusive for the rest of their lives.

Evilgasm

Evilgasm

Netherlands
April 2007

SEP 22, 2007 02:42 AM

Clidna said:
Anotheer thing for her to check into, if she is concerned about what may happen if/when her ex has visitation, is the possibility of only supervised visitation, ie. with his family, if she is comfortable with them. I can't see any judge turning that down if the reason for the split is domestic abuse.



This would again be an ideal solution to that particular aspect of the problem. The only hting that may prove difficult is the fact that his family has already taken her side, and really want little to do with their son. Not having met them I can't make any judgments, only impressions, but I think they'd be willing to help for their grandson's sake if nothing else.


Pip said:
Sadly abusive Men are just as trapped as the women they abuse. (I am not apologizing for them read on) [,,,,] The problem in Domestic Violence situations is the ABUSER. They are the ones that need help and need to be give other places to go, other options. They are just as scared. They think that if she were to leave he'd have nothing left, and so they try to make sure that she feels the same exact way, so she can't go. It is horrible but the interventions need to happen on the abuser side not the abused. They need to be removed from the situation, but the question is how? I have no answers to that question.



I think you described the problem my friend is facing perfectly. Her BF has nowhere to go. He looses her, with the house and most of their property in her name, he literally looses everything he has. He's like a cornered predator. All that more dangerous when he's out of options. Figuring out how to remove him safely is going be major challenge.

SaRawr

SaRawr

I'm lost
May 2007

SEP 22, 2007 03:26 AM

RedBstrd said:

Archaneus said:
I can only think of one other situation in which I didn't think the writing of Bitch_PhD was heavily nazi-feminist ...



I don't think that word means what you think it means.



I don't think most people know what feminist means either...

TAFKASP

TAFKASP

Oakland, CA
June 2003

SEP 22, 2007 03:58 AM

when the shit hit the fan, my mom would run over to apartment #8. her name was "Lola". she was my mom's local form of salvation. my dad wouldn't have hesitated to kill Lola though, even though we hardly knew her, so imagine what he would have done to my mom if she tried to leave. i thank god for that fine woman, Lola; she owed us nothing, yet her life was put in jeopardy each time my child of a father could not control his drinking and his temper, and forced my mom to run to her aid to escape a beating.

so if you do now, don't think it's so easy to leave, unless you, at this very moment, could pack up your entire life and start anew somewhere completely different -- some place you've never been before, and resume a normal life in a matter of months, even years. i'm a single dude without kids, making a decent living, and i could not so easily. so what of her?

that being said, i do wish my mother at least tried to leave. yes, it would have been difficult for her, for us. and don't get me wrong, i don't begrudge her choice. but personally, i would rather be dead right now rather than to have his ghost still haunt and affect our lives the way it does. but like i said, i know it's not easy, and she very well made the best of what we had.

my mom was my Lola.

btw, if there are actually any men who beat their girls reading this right now: you make me fucking sick! I am generally a peaceful man, but you make me fucking see red, you weak, pathetic pieces of shit! mad Do the world a favor, and kill yourselves right now.


DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

SEP 22, 2007 05:16 AM

SuicidePuppies said:
that being said, i do wish my mother at least tried to leave. yes, it would have been difficult for her, for us. and don't get me wrong, i don't begrudge her choice. but personally, i would rather be dead right now rather than to have his ghost still haunt and affect our lives the way it does. but like i said, i know it's not easy, and she very well made the best of what we had.



I know what you mean. I still get almost angry with my mom sometimes for not leaving sooner, as irrational as it is. And dealing with my issues with my dad have been easier than dealing with the codependency issues I still have with her.

Sometimes I want to call her and scream at her that it wasn't right for us to have to bring her ice packs after he knocked her around, that I still sleep with a pillow over my head because that is how I slept to try and block out the yelling. I still find myself wanting to be her 'savior' by trying to fix her problems, and it doesn't make it easier that she still wants me to.

I am blessed, just blessed that the man that I am married to is such a great father and husband. I swore that I would never put my kids through anything like that, and it is one of the few things I've stuck by in my life. I'm glad that I didn't follow in the cycle and that my kids will grow up in peace. Hell, in 8 years, I can probably count on one hand the times he has actually yelled at me.

Wow, it is like some motherfucking group therapy up in here, isn't it. wink

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

SEP 22, 2007 08:31 AM

DhD_No_Pants said:
Wow, it is like some motherfucking group therapy up in here, isn't it. wink



Thank you all for sharing, though. Hearing about the issue from many different sides makes it all the more real, which I think is important in helping people to understand.

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

SEP 22, 2007 08:59 AM

starblood said:
Of course it's not easy but on what planet is that a valid excuse for anything? If you want to stick it out yourself that's one thing but if you have a child you have a responsibility.



Nothing's so cut and dry. What if he isn't hitting the kid? Then she can either take her kid out of school, they can live in a shelter, and worry that dad's going to sue her for custody, saying she abducted his child from him, or she can stay, take the abuse, thinking she's doing what's in her child's best interest. Quite often, "just" leaving can seem more harmful to the children than staying.

When we left my dad, my mother took us out of a comfortable upper-middle class suburb, private school, etc. etc. into poverty. My dad never hit my sister or me, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an abusive household. He was an alcoholic who once locked my sister out of the house for leaving her bike out. Is it any surprise that women who stay in an abusive relationship for the sake of their children are considering that their responsibility?

Tinyhobo

Tinyhobo

Boulder City, NV
December 2006

SEP 22, 2007 09:10 AM

*edited because I am not ready to talk about it*

Tinyhobo

Tinyhobo

Boulder City, NV
December 2006

SEP 22, 2007 09:10 AM

*edited because I am not ready to talk about it*

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

SEP 22, 2007 11:08 AM

Cigarette said:

starblood said:
Of course it's not easy but on what planet is that a valid excuse for anything? If you want to stick it out yourself that's one thing but if you have a child you have a responsibility.



Nothing's so cut and dry. What if he isn't hitting the kid? Then she can either take her kid out of school, they can live in a shelter, and worry that dad's going to sue her for custody, saying she abducted his child from him, or she can stay, take the abuse, thinking she's doing what's in her child's best interest. Quite often, "just" leaving can seem more harmful to the children than staying.

When we left my dad, my mother took us out of a comfortable upper-middle class suburb, private school, etc. etc. into poverty. My dad never hit my sister or me, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an abusive household. He was an alcoholic who once locked my sister out of the house for leaving her bike out. Is it any surprise that women who stay in an abusive relationship for the sake of their children are considering that their responsibility?



Even if the children are not being hit, they are still being damaged. No child should have to grow up in an environment where they see, hear and live with constant violence, even if they aren't being hit themselves.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

SEP 22, 2007 11:15 AM

Clidna said:
Even if the children are not being hit, they are still being damaged. No child should have to grow up in an environment where they see, hear and live with constant violence, even if they aren't being hit themselves



The fact that children shouldn't have to experience that doesn't make all the roadblocks to leaving an abusive partner go away.

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

SEP 22, 2007 12:05 PM

Morgan said:

Clidna said:
Even if the children are not being hit, they are still being damaged. No child should have to grow up in an environment where they see, hear and live with constant violence, even if they aren't being hit themselves



The fact that children shouldn't have to experience that doesn't make all the roadblocks to leaving an abusive partner go away.



Especially if the alternative seems worse.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

SEP 22, 2007 08:41 PM

Morgan said:

Clidna said:
Even if the children are not being hit, they are still being damaged. No child should have to grow up in an environment where they see, hear and live with constant violence, even if they aren't being hit themselves



The fact that children shouldn't have to experience that doesn't make all the roadblocks to leaving an abusive partner go away.



I don't care if I had to go from a comfortable lifestyle to dirt poor, I still would never subject my children to that. Nothing would stop me from getting away from someone who was damaging not only myself, but my children.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

SEP 23, 2007 12:27 PM

Clidna said:
I don't care if I had to go from a comfortable lifestyle to dirt poor, I still would never subject my children to that. Nothing would stop me from getting away from someone who was damaging not only myself, but my children.



It's easy to say what you would do when you haven't actually experienced the situation. I've also heard lots of people say that if someone tried to rob them they'd totally kick their ass, but that's pretty much bullshit too. When you are actually in a situation like that, that kind of decision making might not happen.

Maybe the mom thought abject poverty would be an even more unhealthy situation to put her kids in. Maybe there wasn't anywhere TO go. Or maybe, just maybe, people aren't perfect, and you can't sit in your own comfortable existence and expect them to behave the way you think they should behave, especially in a terrible situation that you obviously don't understand.

Libelula

Libelula

Mexico
March 2007

SEP 23, 2007 02:10 PM

I´d like to smack every person with their own foot that oversimplifies the problem with the just leave statement. tongue Its not like the abuse starts big like being hit or name calling. it starts very fine and almost insignificant like spilled salt on the table that slowly builds and builds as it is building you slowly are getting used to seeing it, to covering it when company comes, to ignore it because its soo insignificant almost to the point that you second guess yourself as to what it really is.. . I left, I left the state, I left the country and everything that ever felt like home so that I could be me without him. All because one day in high school i met a very charming guy that turned.. . What too extreme! I didn´t have any video or tape, but I couldn´t take a step without consent, It was never yelled at me, no he´d whisper it like a goodnight ¨fuck up honey and you won´t be very happy, night sweetie see you tomorrow!¨ Hardest part is when the people around you don´t believe you when they think your exaggerating, when they take their side because his soo sweet soo kind, helpful you should be grateful to be marrying such a man, well I wish I could have your luck.. . my bruises, my tears, my fears mean nothing to you so then I mean nothing to you it is after all just a lil spilled salt on the counter.....................................................in a better place where he can´t follow and i´m me biggrin

Lil_Em

Lil_Em

United Kingdom
May 2007

SEP 28, 2007 12:28 PM

I have just seen the video and right near the end it took my breath away. The problem is that this goes on every single second of every single day somewhere in the world, it is a pandemic which needs to stop. However, I don't ever see it happening.

What struck me the most is that the tone he used, and the things he said to her were exactly the same as how my Dad used to be with my Mum and that was 25 odd years ago. This is the 2nd time I've encountered this. My friend had an abusive ex and he turned up at her house once, about 15 years ago, and his tone and wording was also very similar. Where do they get it from and how do they justify their behaviour to themselves?!

I agree that when you have children they have to come first. Therefore if you're in a violent relationship, it's going to affect them no matter what happens and therefore it is your parental duty to get out of it asap yet I also understand how these bastards bring the mothers down to such a low level they believe its their fault.

Education is key here I guess..............

TheFox

TheFox

Durham, NC
February 2006

OCT 01, 2007 12:23 AM

Clidna said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Morgan said:

Clidna said:
Even if the children are not being hit, they are still being damaged. No child should have to grow up in an environment where they see, hear and live with constant violence, even if they aren't being hit themselves



The fact that children shouldn't have to experience that doesn't make all the roadblocks to leaving an abusive partner go away.



I don't care if I had to go from a comfortable lifestyle to dirt poor, I still would never subject my children to that. Nothing would stop me from getting away from someone who was damaging not only myself, but my children.



The point you're missing, though, is that if she can't prove he's abusive, and he appears to have a better lifestyle, then it is likely he would get custody of the kids. In that situation, he could easily abuse them since she's not around. Siblings go through this a lot - the older one takes the abuse and is afraid to leave because the younger one will no longer be protected.

I imagine there is nothing worse than finally escaping the hell of an abusive relationship, only to have your kids torn from you and put back there - and there is nothing you can do about it.

You can't protect them if you're not there, and if you go back it will be so much worse.

testykitten

testykitten

Andorra
February 2005

OCT 01, 2007 08:13 AM

also, there is a lot of denial and justification in many abuse cases. perhaps the woman can say to herself "well...he doesn't cheat, he doesn't hit me, and he's a good provider...i guess its not so bad." (meanwhile suffering through all sorts of emotional and verbal abuse- which may or may not lead to physical, but is abuse nontheless). sometimes the woman has convinced herself that she is the strong one for keeping the family together.

what seem like antiquated social mores are still alive and strong today. believe it or not, women still get support from society for "sticking it out."

on a side note- it doesn't surprise me that the abusive husband in the video was wearing a cross (from what i heard-couldn't watch it myself). while there are many progressive religious communities around today, generally, religion has never really supported the rights and independence of women.

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