NEWS: In Any Color, Rape is Rape

*sigh*

Maybe we should gouge out everybody's eyes and then this wouldn't be an issue

Actually, you would be wrong. I have never been in that kind of situation.

Like I said this thread has gotten WAY off topic from the drunken hook up, oops I didn't want to have sex, maybe, I'm not sure I was drunk to a guy looking at a girls boobs and thinking she's hot and her thinking it's visual rape .
Women want power just like men do and when you have power you hold it over them and MAKE them do things by force which is part of the definition of rape so by women having power over men is the same thing as men having power over women.

This isn't helping.

no shit..me either. scary these 50 year old men "arguing with girls half their age" on here would assume things like this.

i've just hung around modern day open minded types my entire life and know i've been very, very lucky. i have never met males in real life like some of you are describing. if someone seemed like a preditory creepy guy nobody went near him. he was shunned by girls and guys alike. i've led guys on, passed out in their beds, gotten incredibly drunk and still never had anyone push me beyond my own set physical bounderies.

almost everyone i know grew up with "free to be you and me" so maybe that's why.
all of you should have grown up listening to this

In spite of my elderly creepiness, i'll say one more thing. Some of the women here seem to be attacking me for what I take to be a pro-female statement. But it takes all kinds. Any woman who I've ever talked with about this, usually in an academic setting, have told me stories about this being a not uncommon experience. Often with bosses, supervisors, professors etc.

Thanks, so what are you doing this weekend.

To be a proper analogy, you would have to not just leave your front door unlocked, you have to leave it WIDE FUCKING OPEN. I'd take your TV too. While I was at it, I might trash some stuff. And everybody would think about doing it-- true, not everyone would act on it, but everyone would secretly want to. You can't deny people's basic instincts.

RESPECT. This is why this is "grey rape"-- it is foolish and stupid and people need to be more responsible overall. Girls need to stop going around calling people rapists. It's going to make real, cut-and-dry rape cases much harder to convict. :\

Not only harder but I'd say it's hard enough for a woman to recall events and tell a room full of people without thinking someone is saying she may have cried wolf.

Define "real, cut-and-dry rape cases" for me.

dude, i don't know where you come from, but my neighbors actually DO leave their doors unlocked. i can't say i really have any desire to go checking for any open car doors on my street either to see whose stereo i can rip out either. i stopped shoplifting and putting firecrackers in mailboxes about ten years ago--i think my mindless destruction instincts are gone, sorry.

but to get to the point, if you really don't get how one person making a potentially irrational, reckless or otherwise poorly reasoned decision is ethically separate and distinct from another person deliberately taking advantage of that decision, i don't think i can help you.

I think a bare minimum would require that not everyone involved says "please fuck me".

How about these women/men stop getting so wasted that they can't remember if they said "yes" or "no" and can maybe speak above a whisper or not go off with that sleazy person they JUST met at the bar. Just a thought.

Honestly I think a lot of this is just going back to personal responsibility... it's funny how in one thread someone can rant about how little accountability we're given from the Bush administration but then not an hour later argue the point that a woman who makes the decision to get drunk and sleep with some random dude she's been raped.. why not call for her accountability? She's the one who made the decision to impede her own judgment by drinking too much.

If we take sex out of this picture, say the decision wasn't wether or not to sleep with a stranger, say a drunk girl thought it'd be a fun idea to climb a tree, fell from a high branch, and cracked her skull, did the tree assault her? Should this tree be cut down because it poses a hazard to drunken morons passing by? Sex is no different, if anyone, regardless of gender gets drunk and does something they regret the next day, it's their own fault.

And it goes both ways, I've gotten hammered and woken up next to girls I'd have never slept with if I was thinking clearly, but I wasn't raped, I was drunk and acting stupid. People that get scarred over things like this need to get taken off to a magical place made of rainbows, candy, and unicorns, because in the real world this shit happens, and it's not a matter for the legal system, it's a matter best solved by going home, taking a shower, brushing your teeth until their mouthtaint is gone, and submerging your genitals in bleach if the situation was really bad. Regardless, I was never forcefed my booze, and made whatever decisions I made through a haze of liquor, and that's my own damned fault. Maybe my stance comes from being raised Catholic, guilt's in my blood, but taking a little bit of personal responsibility really wouldn't kill anybody.

Hell, lets just push for legislation that just makes it punishable by death to have sex out of wedlock. That'll fix all of these problems for sure, and give our neocon overlords a new victory to gloat about.

Bahahahahahahahaha!

+1 - I was not raised Catholic, but I was certainly raised to take responsibility for my own actions, and I'll certainly raise my own kids that way. I am bloody sick and tired of people blaming everyone else for their own stupid mistakes. And by this, I mean in every aspect of life, not just getting drunk and fucking people.

I should probably clarify that I'm not arguing my morality is better because I was raised catholic, I've since lost the values but I've kept the guilt.

I don't normally wear cologne but I'll try that.
I'm also going to start kicking puppy dogs, pinch babies, knock little old ladies down, speed through school zones...

ACTUALLY, legally speaking he WAS raped. If you're drunk, and someone knows that and has sex with you anyway, it's rape. PERIOD. This happened to a close friend of mine recently, and he didn't know what to do. The sad truth is that it's VERY hard for a man to prove in a trial that he was raped by a woman. And it happens more than you might think.

I think the Logic Police are going to come get you for that one. It's a crime against rational thought.

Like when a tall, dark stranger in a trenchcoat yanks you into an alley in the middle of the night and ties your hands behind your back and forces himself on you. The only real kind of rape there is. Anything else is gray.

Um...NO. Leaving the door open would be equivalent to getting shitfaced drunk and being BUTT NAKED, bent over and spreading it. But nice try.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Making a bad choice certainly doesn't mean that a woman (or man, for that matter) "deserves it". And rape, by the way, is NOT a basic instinct. It's not even a matter of SEX. It is a crime of power and violence.

Thinking and doing are two separate issues. I know a lot of people who have REALLY wanted to have sex with someone, but that person was drunk. They thought about it, but they knew it would be wrong and didn't do it.

As for your analogy: Even if someone DOES "leave the door wide fucking open," you have no right to take things or trash the house. Decent people would tell the neighbor that their door is open, or even better close the door for them.

So here is an honest question... I've got a story that I believe borders two of the stories that have been considered rape...

I'm a guy, and this is a true story....

I wake up, and my girlfriend (at the time) is on top of me, riding me. I say no. She says "but my mom is gone", I say meh and just give in... I think why deal with the argument... It's not something I would even feel comfortable talking about this early in the morning... etc... She rides me uncomfortably for a bit as I try to finish quickly like it's a beer chugging competition... I didn't want her on top of me first thing in the morning.

I've studied quite a bit of women's studies so I'm not trying to start an argument... I'd actually like to see some answers instead...

My knowledge suggests yes, this is rape. I say no, she keeps going... easy enough...

I give in just like many other women have done.

I'm not attempting to deprecate the traumatic experience it has been for any others, but it just didn't matter to me. I felt it was a bad way to start my day in all honesty

yes, i'm being completely serious here, i'm sure a few people are doubting me at this point based upon the assumptions of the typical male desires and whatnot...

However, this qualifies as a clear cut example of rape yes? I didn't want to have sex, I ended up having sex, even after saying no.

My question is this... Now what?

by definition, is it rape? yeah. would i have wanted to press charges? no. it was a shitty morning...

What would you do?