NEWS: Legalized Prostitution: Apparently Not So Great for Women

CULTURE: Legalized Prostitution: Apparently Not So Great for Women

It's not uncommon for feminists and other folks interested in womens rights to argue that prostitution might be a shittier and less dangerous job if it were legal. But a new book, reviewed in this weekend's Guardian, suggests otherwise.

I've made the pro-legalization argument myself in the past. But further thought, and a little bit of experience, has made me think that while women prostituting themselves should be decriminalized--that is, prostitutes, who are usually pretty desperate women, shouldn't be arrested simply because they are trying to make money by selling sex--soliciting prostitutes, whether as a pimp, madam, or john, should be more heavily criminalized than it currently is. Not only for moral reasons, though it's obviously appalling to profit or derive sexual pleasure from someone else's desperation, but also for practical ones. Soliciting prostitutes clearly endangers and exploits women; it presents a public health hazard, not only through disease but also through violence and abuse; and I think it's undeniable that commercializing sex is dehumanizing; it effectively turns the women (and occasionally men) who provide it into objects themselves, to be traded and sold.

What do you guys think?

Bitch_PhD thinks that it's important to consider the actual effects of things as they are, rather than simply hypothsizing about how prostitution (or any other thing) might theoretically be okay in some imaginary world.

Well, I view prosititution the way I view drugs (and alcohol). It's dangerous, yes, but there's no way you're ever going to get it under control if it's illegal. Legalizing it provides some measure of control. And whether it's illegal or legal, it is still a business enterprise and is therefore governed by the laws of economics, and thus women's sexual practices will always be commercialized (by the very nature of the business structure itself). As for the opinions of the young men, it requires some kind of education campaign. Maybe a "rape is rape" shock TV campaign or something. And yes, heavier policing of solicitors.

Prostitution should be legalized, why should the government say what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body... but this these brothel owners need some serious regulation if they've thought it cool to treat the women like that. Mandatory testing should be instituted for both prostitute and client, if you aren't willing to prove you're clean you have no business screwing someone anyway. Just my two cents worth...

i don't know, it's something to think about, but i have to wonder how much of the situation in nevada could be remedied by stricter regulations on the working conditions in brothels and as you say, requiring the customers to be tested for STDS as well as the prostitutes.

also, i'd like to see a comparative study of legal prostitutes in nevada vs illegal prostitutes in other parts of the country. while the nevada system may be deeply flawed, are these ladies better off in some ways than they would be if they were turning tricks on the streets?

i think it's pretty much a given that as long as human beings exist, some form of prostitution will occur. once that's accepted, it becomes a matter of how best to deal with the industry so that those who work in it are treated equitably and have the same rights and protections as those in other jobs.

Nevada has been for a long time been considered one of the worst places to be a sex worker due to the conditions many of them face in the brothels there. Amsterdam however is still considered to be the poster boy/girl.

I would very much like to see a similar study done on the effects of appearing in hard-core pornography, especially the sort of (i'm assuming here) low paying shit that abounds on the internet (if half of that isn't related to sex trafficking i'd be very surprised). I'm sure that much of the internet porn industry operates in a very similar fashion and has similar scarring factors on the participants and negative objectification impacts on the viewers. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that many of the same desperation factors come into play... Where is the line between prostitution and porn? (this isn't meant at all to slam this site, either...)

Perhaps we could simply stop living like in-educated puritan half-wits, and treat all members of our society like citizens... you know with rights, and privileges?
The truth of the matter is, We wont. We cant. We will refuse to treat each other with respect...
IMO, if vigilante justice were encouraged, people would think twice about what they do...

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

It might be legal, but it will still get your ass kicked that'll teach pimps and rapist a lesson

It's a little off-subject... but i think its important

Pretty much.

Legalization is definitely not a panacea - a lot depends on how it's done. And as examples of not just Nevada but also Thailand show (though it is technically illegal in Thailand), legalization doesn't necessarily correlate with an absence of exploitation.

An just to respond to this oftopic comment, "vigilante justice" rarely means anything more than the oppression of the weak by the strong - which is pretty much what's already going on here.

Wow, this is really interesting to me, as I admire a lot of the whole pro-sex feminism "movement" has to say. This certainly casts a different light on it. So far I agree with all the comments, illegal prostitution will never come under control as long as customers of prostitutes face little to no chance of punishment or being held accountable. I'd like to see the response of potential customers if they thought their picture/face/name could show up in the newspaper crime section each week or something like that. I also think that some more research needs to be done in this area. As AnalogPussy noted, how does Nevada compare to Amsterdam on this matter (although I know customers don't have to be tested/show test results)? It's als interesting to see the results from the research on how the male students felt about prostitution, I wonder how they would compare with a national sample of college males or the general pop. for that matter.

yes. especially about the "same rights and protections" part. the current state of legal prostitution isn't anywhere near where it should be.

overall i think the article shows less that prostitution is inherently bad for women and more that people still have pretty fucked up attitudes towards it (both citizens and lawmakers) which leads to things like being fingerprinted and having to fuck people with no testing record.

VenimemB7, prostitution isn't just a "woman's job." There are many, many male sex workers. If you ever visit southern CA, drive along Santa Monica Blvd in Hollywood. Any "female" you see working might just come with extra parts.

I'm assuming there are working gigolos who service women but I believe those numbers pale in comparison to male sex workers who service men.

Prostitution should be legal for anyone who would like to charge for that service whether they work for a brothel/house or in private practice.

I don't know much about brothels other than what I've seen from the series Cathouse which features workers from the Moonlite Bunny Ranch. The girls don't appear to be there against their will and seem very content and respected. But then again, who really knows?

The only downside I see in legalizing prostitution/sex services everywhere is that the prices for such services would likely go down as the market becomes saturated with options. (The downside would be for the male and female sex workers of course...I assume some people may think that's a good thing for the customer.)

i think it should be legalized across the board.. but regulated THE SHIT out of. health conditions, wages, drug tests, std tests, background checks contracts perhaps even unions wouldnt be a bad idea. reminds me of an episode of Reno 911 where a john in a brothel calls the cops cuz theres no 'employees must wash hands' sign. well done article. very impartial point of view, however the 131 man study seems like it could be a bit skewed due to no percentages given and the small number of tests subjects.

Hardly news to me, I am just more concerned with a woman's mistreatment than I am a man's. That's why I failed to mention the other gender...still abuse is still abuse no matter the gender...

Yes, I think LPIN is less "shitty" and less "dangerous" than in other areas of this country. Many of the house rules are in direct relation to the strict health tests the women have to pass. Remote location? Show me a city that "wants" a brothel in the city limits. Nevada history has shown that there is a fine balance that is kept between the industry and the community. A great book on this subject is Brothel by Alexa Albert who spent a lot of time talking with long time NBA director George Flint. Brothel And what aspect of patriarical capitalism doesn't/hasn't exploited women and men thoughout history? Are we tying to find a perfect form of prostitiution for people to experiement with? There is a whole on-line world of John's who worship these women and pay big bucks to have sex with them. Can they be pro woman and degrade them at the same time? Le'ts just try to make the industry safer, one step at a time.

Obviously prostitution takes many forms. There is a very fine line that has to be walked between allowing a woman or man to do what they want with their body and governmental oversight in the guise of protecting the sex workers. I suspect that the majority of individuals who work at the higher end of the industry don't find it to be such an onerous profession because they don't have a pimp or madam, set their own hours, pick and chose their clients, and make lots of money. The main problem with the Nevada situation is that the women are basically working in the McDonald's of the sex industry, and are heavily exploited by their employers. The girls work all hours of the night and day in isolated desert compounds (prostitution is only legal in low population counties) , and basically have to fuck any fat ugly drunk smelly slob who walks through the door with a wad of cash in his pocket. It's a bad system no matter how you slice it and brothels are pretty fucked up places no matter where their located.

Bang on.

Not to be judgemental towards you or anything, but I find the idea of showing unequal concern for the equal mistreatment of a human being based on their gender really offensive. I dunno. Maybe that's just me.

I do agree with Bitch PhD that we should examine what is actually going on vs. what is mere speculation. This is just sound thinking in general. However, I'm thinking Nevada shouldn't be the model for legalization (i.e. what actually could take place in a legalized system). What about other countries that have legalized prostitution? Are there any studies on them?

Just like drugs, our friendly state goverments make too much money off prostitution to legalize it. They fine you take your money, release you hoping you will do it again. They don't give a shit about if its degrading or a health hazard. Its all about bringing in money using the court systems. More new prisons get built than schools.

Not so much, actually. The War on Drugs isn't proitable to the government at all. That's why some states and communities are trying to decriminalize them.

There is the occasional kept man, but gigolos as an actual heterosexual equivalent of female prostitute are pretty much an urban legend.

Just an uneducated guess, and at the risk of stereotyping, but perhaps a rather large percentage of women working in the sex trade have been abused prior to going professional. If so, then the substance abuse rates among sex workers would likely be high. If I were trying to run a business that depended on workers with a plethora of personal problems, I might be inclined to institute rather strict workplace rules and regs, too, about which, surely, the employees would complain. It would guess it comes with the territory.

Or as Ken Kesey said to Tom Wolfe, apropos an entirely different matter, "You can't fuck with it without getting it on you." This would apply to everyone involved: madams, pimps, prostitutes, johns.

But then for the sex-starved and/or money-hungry, neat and tidy is probably not a high priority.

In theory, I would favor free enterprise. In practice, I would guess the social costs would always be high, and any policy made as a consequence of comparing bad outcomes with worse ones will not make for spontaneous parades.

They could still make money with licensing and registration, etc... Although I believe money is a large part of just about everything, I think the whole Puritan mindset in America is really the big obstacle.

Also, legalization doesn't stop illegal prostitution from still occurring. In Amsterdam, the Russian mafia operates illegal brothels alongside the legal ones. The women in these illegal brothels are often kidnapped or lured away from eastern Europe, and before being pressed into service in these brothels, they are put through are horrible mental conditioning process that often involves daily rape and forced drug addiction.

Yeah Rudie, Russia has far more problems than I was ever aware of. My ignorance about Russia was made crystal clear to me as we have two Russians (well, one now) staying with us.

The cops have the legal right to beat you if they demand that you pay for a ticket on the spot and cannot pay. Many girls end up providing sexual acts on policemen in exchange for payment - and thus the cycle of cops pulling over attractive women for sex begins (and continues).

I'm still learning more of the culture and political issues there and it never ceases to amaze me.

On a totally unrelated note, we were watching Borat last week (the girls wanted to see it but never had the opportunity) and I was impressed that Sascha Baron Cohen is speaking a real language in that movie. I assumed he was either speaking jibberish or just knew enough to get by. The girls told us otherwise.