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shapeshifter23

shapeshifter23

San Francisco, CA
September 2005

SEP 04, 2007 05:43 PM

freshprncebelair said:

Archaneus said:

SockPuppet said:
The US rate is still worse than Cuba's, if the CIA World Factbook is to be believed. And that's with American sanctions in place.



The problem with stating that as proof that we are behind somehow in the world is that Cuba has, I believe, either the best or at least one of the top 3 healthcare systems in the world. They don't tell you that kind of stuff about that oh so horribly evil country here in the US but it's true. Our healthcare system is really bad in general but comparing it to the best in the world is not really a standard to make your point.



Our system is the best in the world for people who can afford it. For the others, not so much.



So, if you equate "best" with 'technologically advanced' then I guess you are right. And if your view of a medical system is restricted to treating sickness, apart from maintaining health and preventing sickness, then you make a good point.

But our system is inherently unsustainable, based as it is on the technologies of affluence. How great is it that we've mastered the delicate procedure of infant heart transplants for the wealthy few, when the culture we live in produces epidemic levels of obesity and diabetes?...

Archaneus

Archaneus

Kalamazoo, MI
October 2006

SEP 04, 2007 08:05 PM

freshprncebelair said:
Our system is the best in the world for people who can afford it. For the others, not so much.



Actually, you might think that's true, but it's not. Even for the people who can afford it, and I am one of those privileged ones who has health insurance, the system isn't that great. Go to to pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and you'll see. People think that capitalism creates quality but in this case, socialism seems to be far and ahead when it comes to health care.

__Rosemary__

__Rosemary__

Rosenberg, TX
February 2007

SEP 04, 2007 08:43 PM

Archaneus said:

freshprncebelair said:
Our system is the best in the world for people who can afford it. For the others, not so much.



Actually, you might think that's true, but it's not. Even for the people who can afford it, and I am one of those privileged ones who has health insurance, the system isn't that great. Go to to pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and you'll see. People think that capitalism creates quality but in this case, socialism seems to be far and ahead when it comes to health care.



totaly agree

edith

edith

France
April 2006

SEP 05, 2007 01:10 AM

Leshia said:

Archaneus said:

freshprncebelair said:
Our system is the best in the world for people who can afford it. For the others, not so much.



Actually, you might think that's true, but it's not. Even for the people who can afford it, and I am one of those privileged ones who has health insurance, the system isn't that great. Go to to pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and you'll see. People think that capitalism creates quality but in this case, socialism seems to be far and ahead when it comes to health care.



totaly agree



me too. best in the world?? um, no.

Bill_the_Cat

Bill_the_Cat

New Zealand
May 2005

SEP 05, 2007 04:10 AM

thefreak said:
No offense, but since when is this wholly an abortion issue?

-TM



It's simple.If every woman aborts their babies rather than giving birth to them think of the lives that will be saved. Hundreds a year!!

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

SEP 05, 2007 06:32 AM

Archaneus said:

freshprncebelair said:
Our system is the best in the world for people who can afford it. For the others, not so much.



Actually, you might think that's true, but it's not. Even for the people who can afford it, and I am one of those privileged ones who has health insurance, the system isn't that great. Go to to pretty much anywhere in Western Europe and you'll see. People think that capitalism creates quality but in this case, socialism seems to be far and ahead when it comes to health care.



Almost all pharmaceutical R&D has been moved to America, NHS is having major budgetary problems, Top US Hospitals make incredible money operating overseas when major corporation don't want to risk local hospitals or local socialized health systems (I actually found out about this last week from a coworker whose brother is going to be working for Johns Hopkins overseas).

garygunpowder

garygunpowder

Franklin, PA
August 2007

SEP 05, 2007 07:33 AM

Man we are all skull

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

SEP 05, 2007 07:48 AM

KingHELL said:

Pistolita said:
I'd say that the overall decline in human health probably has a large affect on the baby making process....



???



It says in the OP that one reason could be obesity on the part of the mother. The rising obesity rates in the U.S. can and do play a role in the overall health of both mother and baby. Gestational diabetes, hypertension, increase in the risk of blood clots, and more of a need for C-sections are just a few examples of risks that are increased by being obese or even overweight and become pregnant.

KingHELL

kinghell

Portland, OR
July 2003

SEP 05, 2007 09:21 AM

DhD_No_Pants said:

KingHELL said:

Pistolita said:
I'd say that the overall decline in human health probably has a large affect on the baby making process....



???



It says in the OP that one reason could be obesity on the part of the mother. The rising obesity rates in the U.S. can and do play a role in the overall health of both mother and baby. Gestational diabetes, hypertension, increase in the risk of blood clots, and more of a need for C-sections are just a few examples of risks that are increased by being obese or even overweight and become pregnant.



And yet, US life expectancy rates continue to rise.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

SEP 05, 2007 09:37 AM

KingHELL said:

DhD_No_Pants said:

KingHELL said:

Pistolita said:
I'd say that the overall decline in human health probably has a large affect on the baby making process....



???



It says in the OP that one reason could be obesity on the part of the mother. The rising obesity rates in the U.S. can and do play a role in the overall health of both mother and baby. Gestational diabetes, hypertension, increase in the risk of blood clots, and more of a need for C-sections are just a few examples of risks that are increased by being obese or even overweight and become pregnant.



And yet, US life expectancy rates continue to rise.





Americans are living longer than ever, but not as long as people in 41 other countries.
For decades, the United States has been slipping in international rankings of life expectancy, as other countries improve health care, nutrition and lifestyles.
Countries that surpass the U.S. include Japan and most of Europe, as well as Jordan and the Cayman Islands.

That life expectancy ranks 42nd, down from 11th two decades earlier, according to international numbers provided by the Census Bureau and domestic numbers from the National Center for Health Statistics.

Researchers said several factors have contributed to the United States falling behind other industrialized nations.
A major one is that 45 million Americans lack health insurance, while Canada and many European countries have universal health care, they say.
But, "It's not as simple as saying we don't have national health insurance," said Sam Harper, an epidemiologist at McGill University in Montreal. "It's not that easy."
Among the other factors:

Adults in the United States have one of the highest obesity rates in the world.
Nearly a third of U.S. adults 20 years and older are obese, while about two-thirds are overweight, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

"The U.S. has the resources that allow people to get fat and lazy," said Paul Terry, an assistant professor of epidemiology at Emory University in Atlanta.
"We have the luxury of choosing a bad lifestyle as opposed to having one imposed on us by hard times."

Racial disparities. Black Americans have an average life expectancy of 73.3 years, five years shorter than white Americans.
Black American males have a life expectancy of 69.8 years, slightly longer than the averages for Iran and Syria and slightly shorter than in Nica-ragua and Morocco.

A relatively high percentage of babies born in the U.S. die before their first birthday, compared with other industrialized nations.



I just picked a few bits from the article. Feel free to read it all here.

ckdexterhaven

ckdexterhaven

USA
December 2005

SEP 05, 2007 03:11 PM

SaRawr said:


Bitch_PhD saw some people quietly praying outside of the local Planned Parenthood the other day, and was briefly tempted to run them over with her car, but didn't.



Ok, I realize this was a sarcastic comment, but c'mon. I'm about as pro-choice as they come, but "quietly praying" isn't hurting anybody. Would you rather that they stand out there with pitch forks and protest signs? If there's one thing we shouldn't be bothered by people doing, it's praying.

(I realize tone of voice in text is hard to read sometimes, but really, I'm not trying to attack anyone here. Just saying any peaceful protester is a friend, even if I disagree with their views.)


Oh come one. It was just a joke. I mean, if a pro-lifer came on here and sarcastically said that he/she wanted to drive car a through the middle of a pro-choice rally, nobody would have made a big deal about that either. Right? heh. wink

SaRawr

SaRawr

I'm lost
May 2007

SEP 05, 2007 07:42 PM

ckdexterhaven said:

SaRawr said:


Bitch_PhD saw some people quietly praying outside of the local Planned Parenthood the other day, and was briefly tempted to run them over with her car, but didn't.



Ok, I realize this was a sarcastic comment, but c'mon. I'm about as pro-choice as they come, but "quietly praying" isn't hurting anybody. Would you rather that they stand out there with pitch forks and protest signs? If there's one thing we shouldn't be bothered by people doing, it's praying.

(I realize tone of voice in text is hard to read sometimes, but really, I'm not trying to attack anyone here. Just saying any peaceful protester is a friend, even if I disagree with their views.)



Oh come one. It was just a joke. I mean, if a pro-lifer came on here and sarcastically said that he/she wanted to drive car a through the middle of a pro-choice rally, nobody would have made a big deal about that either. Right? heh. wink



I know, I know. And really, I make plenty of jokes that could be considered "poor taste" myself, but this one just kind of struck me as ... well, kind of hateful, which didn't seem like Bitch_PhD, who I've considered to be pretty open minded.

Can't we all just get along despite our views? Let's hug. kiss

ckdexterhaven

ckdexterhaven

USA
December 2005

SEP 05, 2007 07:57 PM

SaRawr said:

ckdexterhaven said:

SaRawr said:


Bitch_PhD saw some people quietly praying outside of the local Planned Parenthood the other day, and was briefly tempted to run them over with her car, but didn't.



Ok, I realize this was a sarcastic comment, but c'mon. I'm about as pro-choice as they come, but "quietly praying" isn't hurting anybody. Would you rather that they stand out there with pitch forks and protest signs? If there's one thing we shouldn't be bothered by people doing, it's praying.

(I realize tone of voice in text is hard to read sometimes, but really, I'm not trying to attack anyone here. Just saying any peaceful protester is a friend, even if I disagree with their views.)



Oh come one. It was just a joke. I mean, if a pro-lifer came on here and sarcastically said that he/she wanted to drive car a through the middle of a pro-choice rally, nobody would have made a big deal about that either. Right? heh. wink



I know, I know. And really, I make plenty of jokes that could be considered "poor taste" myself, but this one just kind of struck me as ... well, kind of hateful, which didn't seem like Bitch_PhD, who I've considered to be pretty open minded.

Can't we all just get along despite our views? Let's hug. kiss


I was actually being sarcastic, and agreeing with you. I'm pretty sure a pro-lifer would have gotten flamed had they said that they wanted to run over pro-choice protesters. Just a guess. wink

SaRawr

SaRawr

I'm lost
May 2007

SEP 05, 2007 08:46 PM

So, is that rejection or acceptance of my hug?

Crissis

Crissis

Ecuador
January 2007

SEP 05, 2007 09:36 PM

Bitch_PhD said:
Bitch_PhD saw some people quietly praying outside of the local Planned Parenthood the other day, and was briefly tempted to run them over with her car, but didn't.



hehehehe biggrin

ThatTalentedHack

ThatTalentedHack

San Antonio, TX
July 2007

SEP 05, 2007 10:06 PM

Formus said:

ThatTalentedHack said:
Great article, but the devils advocate in me has to know...

Does the lower death rate in abortions take into account the higher suicide rate that women with abortions have, Or have I been miss-informed?



The numbers are only for deaths during or as a direct result of childbirth, so suicide doesn't factor.



Thanks, that was something i really wondered about.

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