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d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

AUG 30, 2007 07:29 AM

sportbikepilot said:
while reading some of these comments, it occurred to me that we really need a dig or bury feature for SG comments...



preach it!

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

...because i gots to get paid.

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

AUG 30, 2007 07:31 AM

xo_b_mac said:
Yes a government controlled electronic banking card! Why! How about instead of constantly having to produce new Health Cards, Bank Cards, Drivers Licenses, Money, Lisences Plates, SIN Cards, Monthly Bills, Birth Certificates, Passports and so on. Lets just have a chip implanted that will hold all our information! That way we can feel good about saving the environment well the government keeps track of your every move!

In fact instead of printing books, photos and memories! lets ban hard copies and go totally electronic! that way it'll be there forever online until its decided that it never existed! But hey! that doesn't matter because it saved some trees...right? and thats all that matters!



eventually people like you will be killed by my relentless cyborg children.

pygmy

pygmy

Portland, OR
July 2004

AUG 30, 2007 10:20 AM



When a tree rots or burns, the carbon contained in the wood is released back to the atmosphere. Since combustion releases carbon, active forest management -- such as removing dead trees and clearing debris from the forest floor -- will be imperative in reducing the number and intensity of fires.



this is such a joke.

anyone who's ever seen a clear-cut knows there are HUGE piles of rotting, economically "useless" branches and debris they either let rot or, more often, burn with gasoline, when they're done harvesting.

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

AUG 30, 2007 11:00 AM

pygmy said:


When a tree rots or burns, the carbon contained in the wood is released back to the atmosphere. Since combustion releases carbon, active forest management -- such as removing dead trees and clearing debris from the forest floor -- will be imperative in reducing the number and intensity of fires.



this is such a joke.

anyone who's ever seen a clear-cut knows there are HUGE piles of rotting, economically "useless" branches and debris they either let rot or, more often, burn with gasoline, when they're done harvesting.



seriously. somehow preventing forest fires is more important than preserving a mature forest and the myriad of interdependent systems within it? suuure.

not to mention the ludicrousness of the fact that he's proposing that we actively disrupt yet another natural part of forest life (i mean jesus, fires are how underbrush gets cleared. that's how forests work) and throw the whole thing even further out of balance. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills here.

Hickster

Hickster

Highlands, NC
June 2007

AUG 30, 2007 11:16 AM

Anyone here have an education in ecology or forestry or biology or climatology or anything of that nature?

Hickster

Hickster

Highlands, NC
June 2007

AUG 30, 2007 11:29 AM

As a forester myself, I don't care much for clearcutting..thank goodness that the most valuable trees at least in the US are shade tolerant trees that must be harvested in thinnings or shelterwood cuts or group selection and if valuable enough can be harvested by air or by a system of cables. More demand for forest products does allow for more forest but it also is important to preserve untouched corridors. You can have both. Ask New Zealand about its pine plantations and parks. My point is this isn't some black and white subject. As for the wildfires, the USDA Forest Service has and will continue to make blunders and contributes very little to the timber industry anyway (or the environment)...except for selling the stuff way under value and wasting tax dollars. I do doubt that Leo will ever really contribute anything meaningful.

joker_

joker_

Minneapolis, MN
October 2005

AUG 30, 2007 12:50 PM

I'm not exactly sure what kind of environmentalist makes statements that fail to consider the massive damage that deforestation does to the various species that populate the forests. One that only cares about human survival I guess?
I would agree that deforestation and reforestation can work, but the way that guy makes his statements ignores the reality that deforestation is more than just getting rid of trees. Perhaps, he just doesn't give a shit about biodiversity?

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

AUG 30, 2007 02:08 PM

xo_b_mac said:

Formus said:
I also favor the elimination of paper money to be replaced with government-mandated debit cards/accounts to save trees.



Yes a government controlled electronic banking card! Why! How about instead of constantly having to produce new Health Cards, Bank Cards, Drivers Licenses, Money, Lisences Plates, SIN Cards, Monthly Bills, Birth Certificates, Passports and so on. Lets just have a chip implanted that will hold all our information! That way we can feel good about saving the environment well the government keeps track of your every move!



Yes! How silly of me! Without realizing it or even arguing it, I was advocating microchip implants! I really am far more genius than even I give myself credit for!


In fact instead of printing books, photos and memories! lets ban hard copies and go totally electronic! that way it'll be there forever online until its decided that it never existed! But hey! that doesn't matter because it saved some trees...right? and thats all that matters!



Trees, yes. Oh yeah, and the hundreds of millions of dollars it would save the United States every year, the unheralded blow it would deal to counterfeiters, the fact that a great portion of the population already use cards over paper money, the fact that cards are much easier to organize and replace should the need arise, etc...

You don't want the government to steal information? Put the cards and accounts in private banks, completely free of any government control other than that which exists currently. However, when need be, the government can deposit money directly into the account - which, by the way, it already does - in the case of Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, tax returns, etc. However, the majority of the transactions will remain, as they always have been, private - personal transactions, payments, paychecks.

Additionally:

A) people already have all but phased out photo development - it's called the digital camera. And with it, memory has all but ceased to be! Just as Plato feared with the development of literature! Noooooo! Damn you Plato! Damn you!
B) you can print memories? Gee, all along I thought they existed inside your brain. Oh right! Duh! It must all be part of that microchip idea I pitched earlier. of course! Silly me!

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

AUG 30, 2007 02:14 PM

Hickster said:
I do doubt that Leo will ever really contribute anything meaningful.



Unlike An Inconvenient Truth, which dealt primarily with the facts of global warming and the lack of attention paid to it, The 11th Hour, near as I can tell, deals a great deal with things we as individuals can do to stop global warming, by presenting several examples of what other individual citizens have done. In that way, it is meaningful and helpful on the personal level, which AIT spent very little time on.

PS, I completely agree with you that a College Degree automatically entitles you with boundless intellect and immediate superiority over all other opinions that ever get presented, no matter how reasonable and logical they may be.

shapeshifter23

shapeshifter23

San Francisco, CA
September 2005

AUG 30, 2007 04:07 PM

jmb1 said:
I know this is not the popular consensus, but I can't help this horrible doom-and-gloom feeling in my gut that we've done too much damage already and we are all in for it. I'm not trying to be a cynical asshole, really, and I know everyone will tell me I shouldn't give up or, get up off your ass and pitch in, and I'm happy to do it, if anyone can actually agree on how to best address these problems ( i am admittedly fucking clueless).

But I don't know....we can all do our best, whatever the hell we think that is, but things have gotten so far beyond our control; I'm not religious and I'm not a fatalist, but you can almost feel it in the air these days: Everyone's jumpy, anxious, and, even if it's buried in their subconscious, it feels like everyone's walking around half-expecting the world to end at any second. It's fucking stultifying.

But hey, if one of y'all knows how to save our asses then please show me the way, and I promise I'll follow in your golden footsteps. One request though: None of this talk about how we should ALL go back to agrarian, hunter-gatherer-farmer lifestyles. Nature's pretty but she ain't our friend; I like having electricity, modern medicines, mass transit, etc. And sorry veggie/vegans: The answer to our environmental problems is NOT to demand that everyone stops eating meat. Some of us just have to have it, and you'll never convince me that humans were designed and meant to be herbivores. Just remember, next time you're petting that cute kitty on your lap, if your little schmookums was the size of a panther she'd tear your ribs out and feast on your entrails. For better or worse, it is the way of things.



It will not be long before oil becomes so scarce or expensive to produce that our whole American Dream way of life, as exemplified by your sense of entitlement to all the comforts and preferences we have become accustomed to, will undergo a precipitous collapse. When that happens, electricity and meat may become luxuries only the wealthy can afford - that is, before they become impractical to obtain for even the most privileged classes.

I suggest reading The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler. We're all in for a rough ride over the next few decades/centuries, whether we like it or not, because we've waited too long to correct the problems we've created and to build alternatives.

Just don't say you weren't warned.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

AUG 30, 2007 09:23 PM

shapeshifter23 said:
It will not be long before oil becomes so scarce or expensive to produce that our whole American Dream way of life, as exemplified by your sense of entitlement to all the comforts and preferences we have become accustomed to, will undergo a precipitous collapse.



Water too. Fucking Southwest.

Alfaduetto

Alfaduetto

Greeneville, TN
May 2004

AUG 31, 2007 09:05 AM

Hey folks, if you want to do something, get out there and plant your own trees. You don't need a 3rd world slave labor company like Dell to do it for you, do you? mad

Hickster

Hickster

Highlands, NC
June 2007

AUG 31, 2007 06:30 PM

I would like to say that my favorite Leonardo movie is Gangs of New York. This one could be good or just silly like Titanic.

Hickster

Hickster

Highlands, NC
June 2007

AUG 31, 2007 06:37 PM

joker_

joker_

Minneapolis, MN
October 2005

AUG 31, 2007 06:48 PM

Hickster said:
Oh yeah, and speaking of biodiversity...what about the controversy involving world trade and invasive species? Is it something that can actually be controlled or are many of the species just doomed? I was just surprised this hasn't become a bigger deal than it has so far.



From what I have read, it is a toss up. Occasionally there are effective methods to deal with invasive species and the rest of the time it is a disaster. In particular with smaller plants and insects.

Still, the fact remains habitat destruction is often times a huge, huge factor in the decline of various species.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

AUG 31, 2007 06:58 PM

Synthiviper said:
Pretty sure I did my part when I checked the box to have tree planted when I ordered my new Dell XPS megacomputersystem. It was the least I could do, and I brag about it every chance I get because I'm an American!


Pfft. That's nothing.

When I got my new laptop, I planted my old laptop in the forest.

PerilousPup

PerilousPup

I'm lost
May 2007

SEP 03, 2007 08:38 AM

Dr. Patrick Moore went on to promote shooting deer:

They are clearly a threat to the ecosystem. After all, they eat trees... and I hate that dumb fucking look in their eyes.



Sorry, but I am still a fan of pergo.

Oninotaki

oninotaki

Ypsilanti, MI
March 2003

SEP 03, 2007 03:18 PM

I think we need to get back to the real problem that was mentioned earlier. Trees grow to slowly for us, so we need to fix that. How do we fix this you ask? Why we geneticly(sp?) engineer trees to grow faster duh. I want a full size redwood in 2 years not 1,000! biggrin

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