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Rahodeb

Rahodeb

Los Angeles, CA
March 2006

AUG 29, 2007 03:44 PM



Dr. Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace and chairman and chief scientist of Greenspirit Strategies Ltd., published an article today debunking a lot of the apparent bullshit spewed in Hollywood's latest doomsday documentary: Leonardo DiCaprio's The 11th Hour. The good doctor says he's "concerned that we're losing sight of some indisputable facts." Facts? What are those? Science and politics aren't about facts! They're about emotions and opinions, duh.

Annnyway, Dr. Moore, bless his soul, has attempted to use the tediously dull medium of the written word to try to talk some sense into people. Zzzzzz. No powerfully dramatic soundtrack? No theatrical images and special effects in fast-forward? Booooring. And what's all this talk about trees? Yawn.

As a lifelong environmentalist, I say trees can solve many of the world's sustainability challenges. Forestry is the most sustainable of all the primary industries that provide us with energy and materials. Rather than cutting fewer trees and using less wood, DiCaprio and Berman ought to promote the growth of more trees and the use of more wood.

Wait, so Greenpeace is encouraging us to cut down trees to promote environmenal renewal? Environmentalists and the timber industry, hand-in-hand, singing "Kumbaya" together? Can this crazy world get any weirder? But Dr. Moore is not alone. Earlier this month, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer published an article titled 'Green' allies see environmental value in logging.

Environmentalists and leading Democrats are advancing a new way to "green up" the state's portfolio by setting aside $70 million of state money to buy forestland for logging.

That may seem odd, but global warming has been redefining the rules of nature -- and politics, too. Environmentalists and their political allies say in the long run, logging is better for the planet than unchecked development.

Dr. Moore offers a scientific explanation of why using more wood can be beneficial for the environment.

The relationship between trees and greenhouse gases is simple enough on the surface. Trees grow by taking carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and, through photosynthesis, converting it into sugars. The sugars are then used as energy and materials to build cellulose and lignin, the main constituents of wood.

Although old trees contain huge amounts of carbon, their rate of sequestration has slowed to a near halt. A young tree, although it contains little fixed carbon, pulls CO2 from the atmosphere at a much faster rate.
When a tree rots or burns, the carbon contained in the wood is released back to the atmosphere. Since combustion releases carbon, active forest management -- such as removing dead trees and clearing debris from the forest floor -- will be imperative in reducing the number and intensity of fires.

To address climate change, we must use more wood, not less. Using wood sends a signal to the marketplace to grow more trees and to produce more wood. That means we can then use less concrete, steel and plastic -- heavy carbon emitters through their production. Trees are the only abundant, biodegradable and renewable global resource.

He ends by calling The 11th Hour "another example of anti-forestry scare tactics," and encourages us all to start putting cold, hard science before Hollywood-hype. Hear that, Leo? Put down the hand-mirror and plant a goddamned tree.

Synthiviper

Synthiviper

Chicago, IL
June 2004

AUG 29, 2007 04:15 PM

Pretty sure I did my part when I checked the box to have tree planted when I ordered my new Dell XPS megacomputersystem. It was the least I could do, and I brag about it every chance I get because I'm an American!

brucejuice

brucejuice

Brooklyn, NY
February 2004

AUG 29, 2007 04:36 PM

It is factually inaccurate to associate Patrick Moore with Greenpeace. True, he was involved with the organization in the early 70s but that relationship was severed more than a decade ago. His stated policies are routinely at odds with the now International organization Greenpeace. The two couldn't be farther apart.

aaronthere

aaronthere

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

AUG 29, 2007 04:39 PM

Hey didn't Brad Pitt buy enough forest to compensate for his co2 production?

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

AUG 29, 2007 05:12 PM

I agree we need to be using more wood.

However, Moore omits the fact that old trees and dead wood are essential to a healthy woodland ecology.

And this


North Americans are the world's largest per-capita wood consumers and yet our forests cover approximately the same area of land as they did 100 years ago.


takes absolutely no notice of the sources of much of the wood North America actually uses for furniture and other long-term carbon sequestration in wood.

Take this guy's statements with a pinch of salt.

LexyLou

LexyLou

Los Angeles, CA
January 2006

AUG 29, 2007 05:54 PM

I'm no scientist but that sounds really wrong. Why don't we just keep the logging to a minimum and use hemp? It uses half the energy and the plants grow back faster than a tree does.
Besides don't cars, which are being used ALL the time and there are millions and milliions of them, aren't they releasing more Carbon than a few forest fires do?
This reader thinks there should be more research on this Patrick Moore character and his relationship with Greenpeace, before any major decisions are made.
I saw The 11th Hour and loved it it made me want to jump from my theater seat at the credits and recycle something STAT! How can something that empowering be sooo bad?

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

AUG 29, 2007 05:59 PM

Nobody else gives a shit what Greenpeace thinks, I'm sure Leo doesn't either.

shapeshifter23

shapeshifter23

San Francisco, CA
September 2005

AUG 29, 2007 06:19 PM

Well, this is news to me. I guess we will have to do our part to boost demand for logging by boycotting all recycled paper products.

Keep that disinformation coming!...

lavenir

lavenir

Turlock, CA
June 2007

AUG 29, 2007 06:21 PM

LexyLou said:
I'm no scientist but that sounds really wrong. Why don't we just keep the logging to a minimum and use hemp? It uses half the energy and the plants grow back faster than a tree does.


Since we live in the same state, I assume that you know that the federal government will not allow the use of hemp for any purpose, no matter how logical.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

AUG 29, 2007 06:25 PM

LexyLou said:
I'm no scientist but that sounds really wrong. Why don't we just keep the logging to a minimum and use hemp? It uses half the energy and the plants grow back faster than a tree does.
Besides don't cars, which are being used ALL the time and there are millions and milliions of them, aren't they releasing more Carbon than a few forest fires do?
This reader thinks there should be more research on this Patrick Moore character and his relationship with Greenpeace, before any major decisions are made.
I saw The 11th Hour and loved it it made me want to jump from my theater seat at the credits and recycle something STAT! How can something that empowering be sooo bad?



I wasn't aware that we were forming a quorum to make any major decisions? Are we? I feel vastly unprepared to do anything but speculate based on the opinions and facts presented to me by people I identify with.

xazapdmytinu

xazapdmytinu

Fort Collins, CO
July 2007

AUG 29, 2007 06:27 PM

Synthiviper said:
Pretty sure I did my part when I checked the box to have tree planted when I ordered my new Dell XPS megacomputersystem. It was the least I could do, and I brag about it every chance I get because I'm an American!



I brag about that every time I eat a black bean burger with soy cheese...those count as trees right? wink

I thought it was a pretty well known fact that while old growth trees provide habitats and safe havens too many of them is just as bad as not enough...then again I know a lot of ecology and forrestry majors.

Johnny_Flapjacks

Johnny_Flapjacks

Williamsport, PA
September 2006

AUG 29, 2007 06:42 PM

I've never been a fan of trees myself... sometimes, when I'm really angry, I go out and cut one of them down. It really relieves stress. However, now that I know that this action is actually helping the environment, I'm going to stop. I'm like, totally gay for global warming!

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

AUG 29, 2007 06:59 PM

shapeshifter23 said:
Well, this is news to me. I guess we will have to do our part to boost demand for logging by boycotting all recycled paper products.



Aside from the fact that demand by rich, lonely old bags for large, obtuse furniture has steeply dropped recently.

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

AUG 29, 2007 07:04 PM

Patrick Moore is a paid shill for big biotech and forestry companies.

from my link:


"Patrick Moore is an eco Judas," said David Suzuki

...

"He's a turncoat who supports many of the things we oppose," said Greenpeace spokesman Craig Culp. "We basically try not to have anything to do with Patrick Moore."



i grew up in the same area as both Suzuki and Moore, and my father worked for years as a forest tech. i can confidently say that, without question, Patrick Moore is a disingenuous fucking douchebag. his (owners') latest tactic is to jump on the cause celebre that is climate change instead of addressing the myriad of problems in the forest industry.

i mean honestly, "just keep logging and plant more trees! they help with CO2!"? why, that's a fantastic idea! nevermind the ecological (streams, soil, wildlife, etc) damage done by laying roads and repeatedly leveling a cutblock. nevermind that the juvenile trees he wants us to rely on will take decades -- in some cases centuries -- to grow back to a point where they're as useful to both us and the local ecosystem as the old growth we took out was. nevermind that his boneheaded, corporate-funded, bullshit ideas don't properly address the sustainability issues that are at the core of modern environmentalism.

no, let's not worry about any of that. just plant more trees, it'll work out fine!

ugh.

dark_armour

dark_armour

Australia
September 2005

AUG 29, 2007 08:02 PM

I don't think that logging existing forests is a good idea, but encouraging plantation logging is important.

Plantation land is covered by trees, reducing salination, improving soil quality, and removing greenhouse gasses. The wood and paper produced are biodegradable products.
They provide better alternatives to foam cups, plastic plates, plastic chopsticks, cheap plastic furniture, plastic grocery bags etc.

Meanwhile the land is NOT being used to increase carbon production and soil degredation as farming land.

farva

farva

Portland, OR
November 2005

AUG 29, 2007 08:23 PM

I read "Greenpeace" "somebody Moore" and "DiCaprio" and just assumed all involved were complete morons and I shouldn't care what any of them think.

Anyone who looks to for/expects Leonardo DiCaprio to have cold hard facts regarding anything other than how to make a horrible movie needs to reevaluate their position in life.

shapeshifter23

shapeshifter23

San Francisco, CA
September 2005

AUG 29, 2007 08:31 PM

farva said:
I read "Greenpeace" "somebody Moore" and "DiCaprio" and just assumed all involved were complete morons and I shouldn't care what any of them think.

Anyone who looks to for/expects Leonardo DiCaprio to have cold hard facts regarding anything other than how to make a horrible movie needs to reevaluate their position in life.



Well. I'm glad someone has an open mind...

mQx

mqx

Seattle, WA
January 2003

AUG 29, 2007 09:44 PM

Doesn't everyone that watched the Bullshit on recycling already know more demand for trees = more trees?

Wraithkiss

Wraithkiss

Everett, WA
November 2004

AUG 29, 2007 09:57 PM

Trees grow soooooo slowly there's no way planting trees is going to do enough to save the planet. And planing douglas fir etc isnt gonna cut it. If you're going to use wood its got to be faster growing stuff like bamboo. Not that I'm against using wood. I'll take a wood table over a plastic or metal one any day. You need to watch what kind of wood we're talking about though and how its harvested. We use tons of wood in our lives but tons and tons of that comes from other places cause we havent cared how it was grown and harvested, only how much it costs and what kind of wood it was. Just like everything else in the world now, if you want to be green you need to look at the big picture on a case by case basis when deciding what kind of products to buy. More wood isnt the answer to all our building needs. For example. I'm getting the roof replaced on my house. Almost everyone nowdays goes for crappy cheap ass composite roofing made of fiberglass and oil products and they wear out in about 10-15 years. I could go and buy cedar shakes..... but cedar is heavy and still only lasts about 15 years or so before needing to be replaced. When it is replaced its gonna have to be ripped off and guess what? It'd head straight for a landfill. At the cost of about twice what the cheap crappy asphalt composite roofing goes for I'm replacing my roof with steel tiles molded like slate. Steel will last me 50 years pretty easy, and guess what? its recyclable. Even when they tear my house down they'll be able to scrap the roof. If I had bought aluminum it'd have a fighting chance to last me 100 years and be even easier to recycle.... but aluminum is about three times as much as composite so that put it a bit too much outta my range. There's no one fix to save the planet, and no one raw material that's perfect for every scenario.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

AUG 29, 2007 10:08 PM

dark_armour said:
I don't think that logging existing forests is a good idea, but encouraging plantation logging is important.

Plantation land is covered by trees, reducing salination, improving soil quality, and removing greenhouse gasses. The wood and paper produced are biodegradable products.
They provide better alternatives to foam cups, plastic plates, plastic chopsticks, cheap plastic furniture, plastic grocery bags etc.

Meanwhile the land is NOT being used to increase carbon production and soil degredation as farming land.



I'm all for creating giant, 50-story multilevel greenhouse structures that grow nothing but deciduous forest environments that would be placed around the country/world.

I also favor the elimination of paper money to be replaced with government-mandated debit cards/accounts to save trees.

Also, bring back the electric car and/or mandate gas mileage to be at minimum 30 MPG on the highway.

xo_b_mac

xo_b_mac

Markham, ON
June 2007

AUG 29, 2007 10:33 PM

This movie is more about making money off a currently popular trend than it is about saving the environment.

xo_b_mac

xo_b_mac

Markham, ON
June 2007

AUG 29, 2007 10:46 PM

Formus said:
I also favor the elimination of paper money to be replaced with government-mandated debit cards/accounts to save trees.



Yes a government controlled electronic banking card! Why! How about instead of constantly having to produce new Health Cards, Bank Cards, Drivers Licenses, Money, Lisences Plates, SIN Cards, Monthly Bills, Birth Certificates, Passports and so on. Lets just have a chip implanted that will hold all our information! That way we can feel good about saving the environment well the government keeps track of your every move!

In fact instead of printing books, photos and memories! lets ban hard copies and go totally electronic! that way it'll be there forever online until its decided that it never existed! But hey! that doesn't matter because it saved some trees...right? and thats all that matters!

Trahern

Trahern

United Kingdom
March 2003

AUG 30, 2007 12:48 AM

I wouldn't mind us chopping down trees across the whole world if we were replacing them just as fast. We already do it with pretty much everything that is grown in farms. The problem seems to be that because trees would take so much longer to grow and harvest, none of the people that can start the cycle can be bothered to actually do it.

jmb1

jmb1

I'm lost
July 2006

AUG 30, 2007 01:44 AM

I know this is not the popular consensus, but I can't help this horrible doom-and-gloom feeling in my gut that we've done too much damage already and we are all in for it. I'm not trying to be a cynical asshole, really, and I know everyone will tell me I shouldn't give up or, get up off your ass and pitch in, and I'm happy to do it, if anyone can actually agree on how to best address these problems ( i am admittedly fucking clueless).

But I don't know....we can all do our best, whatever the hell we think that is, but things have gotten so far beyond our control; I'm not religious and I'm not a fatalist, but you can almost feel it in the air these days: Everyone's jumpy, anxious, and, even if it's buried in their subconscious, it feels like everyone's walking around half-expecting the world to end at any second. It's fucking stultifying.

But hey, if one of y'all knows how to save our asses then please show me the way, and I promise I'll follow in your golden footsteps. One request though: None of this talk about how we should ALL go back to agrarian, hunter-gatherer-farmer lifestyles. Nature's pretty but she ain't our friend; I like having electricity, modern medicines, mass transit, etc. And sorry veggie/vegans: The answer to our environmental problems is NOT to demand that everyone stops eating meat. Some of us just have to have it, and you'll never convince me that humans were designed and meant to be herbivores. Just remember, next time you're petting that cute kitty on your lap, if your little schmookums was the size of a panther she'd tear your ribs out and feast on your entrails. For better or worse, it is the way of things.

zyryx

zyryx

Tyler, TX
April 2004

AUG 30, 2007 07:15 AM

while reading some of these comments, it occurred to me that we really need a dig or bury feature for SG comments...

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