TOPICS:
AUG 15, 2007 05:56 AM
Haha... hahaha but seriously, how is daddy going to cross the border into Mexico to buy drugs and drink tequila from the navel of his favourite child prostitute? ![]()
I must say though DG, I enjoy your articles. For better or worse, they're usually the most comment worthy.
AUG 15, 2007 06:17 AM
Although I do wonder if this applies for people who have already set up an arrangement regarding arrears with the ex spouse.
I know a guy, and his wife ran off with the kid and was un-findable for a long time. Once everything was finally settled, including the divorce decree, he was responsible for payments for the time in between. (mutually agreed upon by the two) So now he just sends an extra amount of money in with his normal chsp payments.
Or for people who need to work out of country. I mean, it is kind of hard to pay child support at all if you can't do your job.
AUG 15, 2007 06:53 AM
DhD_PillowPants said:
Although I do wonder if this applies for people who have already set up an arrangement regarding arrears with the ex spouse.
I know a guy, and his wife ran off with the kid and was un-findable for a long time. Once everything was finally settled, including the divorce decree, he was responsible for payments for the time in between. (mutually agreed upon by the two) So now he just sends an extra amount of money in with his normal chsp payments.
Or for people who need to work out of country. I mean, it is kind of hard to pay child support at all if you can't do your job.
+1
I think this is great in probably most instances!! But i know a few guys where this would just blatantly be unfair! (similar situations to DhD's friend)
The problem with laws like this is the specific circumstances are not considered!
Oh well, I guess you have to screw the good ones to get the bad ones ![]()
AUG 15, 2007 08:14 AM
What if you're currently paying your child support as well as the arrearage in accordance with the law, such as is the case with a "reformed" father?
Does this make it right then to punish the father for doing the right thing because he owes "x" amount?
It's not that difficult to owe $2,500 in arrearages. It usually takes a long time for a child support order to be written and reach the court system. By that time, even though the father doesn't owe any child support yet, he suddenly is presented with a bill for that amount or more. How exactly is this fair?
Parental parity is really the way to go. Many fathers get screwed by the court system because they're not treated fairly. Somehow the mother is deemed a "better parent" because she is a "traditional caregiver" or perhaps because the "bond is too strong between mother and child". The father may want joint custody but is unable to obtain it due to the laws in his State. Many frustrated fathers simply leave the State and add to the problem of unpaid child support.
Everyone probably already knows that the best parent is both parents. Unfortunately, many jaded people don't see it that way, so the problem gets worse and worse and both parents and children are punished in the end.
AUG 15, 2007 08:27 AM
This law looks like an awesome idea. With any awesome idea that is going to be based in reality, however, I do have a couple issues. My concern is twofold:
1) Not having reasonable exceptions and thusly punishing the innocent
2) The possiblity of retaliation from asshats who do owe the money and see their former partner as "at fault" for inconveniencing them
AUG 15, 2007 08:46 AM
i have set up pay plans with mommy but when it come to the state not being able to charge you an extra 8% on your money owed they get pissed at you and say that your whole pmnt should be sent to them and in this case i over payed working the pmnt options with mommy and the state court orderd more money to be taken out of my check i have no problem with that but Why????????????? does the state get to keep the 8% on the money owed when it should go to the kid and the pmnt should be lowerd to the nomal amount as set by the court now the fee for the lawyer is more than the money owed on the back support to . TO ALL MEN YOU HAD NO PROBLEM SPENDING THE MONEY TO GET HER IN THE SACK SO YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM PAYING FOR THE KID AND IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT WELL THATS LIFE
AUG 15, 2007 08:49 AM
Holden_Caulfield said:
What if you're currently paying your child support as well as the arrearage in accordance with the law, such as is the case with a "reformed" father?
Does this make it right then to punish the father for doing the right thing because he owes "x" amount?
It's not that difficult to owe $2,500 in arrearages. It usually takes a long time for a child support order to be written and reach the court system. By that time, even though the father doesn't owe any child support yet, he suddenly is presented with a bill for that amount or more. How exactly is this fair?
Parental parity is really the way to go. Many fathers get screwed by the court system because they're not treated fairly. Somehow the mother is deemed a "better parent" because she is a "traditional caregiver" or perhaps because the "bond is too strong between mother and child". The father may want joint custody but is unable to obtain it due to the laws in his State. Many frustrated fathers simply leave the State and add to the problem of unpaid child support.
Everyone probably already knows that the best parent is both parents. Unfortunately, many jaded people don't see it that way, so the problem gets worse and worse and both parents and children are punished in the end.
AUG 15, 2007 08:51 AM
latenite2007 said:
i have set up pay plans with mommy but when it come to the state not being able to charge you an extra 8% on your money owed they get pissed at you and say that your whole pmnt should be sent to them and in this case i over payed working the pmnt options with mommy and the state court orderd more money to be taken out of my check i have no problem with that but Why????????????? does the state get to keep the 8% on the money owed when it should go to the kid and the pmnt should be lowerd to the nomal amount as set by the court now the fee for the lawyer is more than the money owed on the back support to . TO ALL MEN YOU HAD NO PROBLEM SPENDING THE MONEY TO GET HER IN THE SACK SO YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM PAYING FOR THE KID AND IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT WELL THATS LIFE
Complete, coherent sentences are your friend.
AUG 15, 2007 10:22 AM
latenite2007 said:
ARE THEY CHARGEING YOU 8% AS WELL?
Oh, yes. It really makes it easy to pay back the child support, too. *sarcasm*
The judge on my case was actually quoted in the newspaper stating that he wished that he could waive the interest, but it is completely beyond his control.
Non-custodial parents have a bad rap in this country. The media portrays them as the "scum of the Earth". It is this perception that destroys families and the bond between parent and child.
AUG 15, 2007 11:16 AM
I've never had to pay child support, but I have been unable to afford to travel to a job to earn money. There seems to be a potential catch 22 here for any parent who is behind on payments, yet needs that passport in order to earn the money to make those payments.
AUG 15, 2007 11:27 AM
Holden_Caulfield said:
latenite2007 said:
ARE THEY CHARGEING YOU 8% AS WELL?
Oh, yes. It really makes it easy to pay back the child support, too. *sarcasm*
The judge on my case was actually quoted in the newspaper stating that he wished that he could waive the interest, but it is completely beyond his control.
Non-custodial parents have a bad rap in this country. The media portrays them as the "scum of the Earth". It is this perception that destroys families and the bond between parent and child.
Wait, y'all have to pay interest on back child support? Who does the interest go to?
AUG 15, 2007 11:51 AM
Wow. Just wow.
For all the bad press that deadbeat dads get in this country, y'all sure got their backs. Here's a news flash, this law only applies to parents in arrears that have been reported to and investigated by the state who are then certified by the federal government and need a new or renewal passport. About the rarest of fucking circumstances but hey, let's all worry about how "unfair" that might be to daddy.
AUG 15, 2007 12:27 PM
reprobate said:
Wow. Just wow.
For all the bad press that deadbeat dads get in this country, y'all sure got their backs. Here's a news flash, this law only applies to parents in arrears that have been reported to and investigated by the state who are then certified by the federal government and need a new or renewal passport. About the rarest of fucking circumstances but hey, let's all worry about how "unfair" that might be to daddy.
I don't think anyone here thinks that deadbeat dads are win.
How is it 'rare' that a person has been reported to the state for arrears and would need a passport?
AUG 15, 2007 12:37 PM
I think a good rule of thumb regarding one's own children is:
Out of sight, out of your mind.
People always seem to get upset about not having custody of their children. I have at least a little bit of respect for every non-custodial parent, even the one's that are clearly too incompetent to be parents. Even they have feelings. Also I believe many of the non-custodial parents that are disinterested in their children are probably "erasing" the angst that they used to have joint custody and now do not, only they are doing it incorrectly. I do agree that there is a lot more language available to demonize non-custodial parents than there is to support them. Somehow we've gotten overly polarized by custody battles, even if we have never been in one, and simply ignore individual responsibility to children's welfare as the goal. Pointing fingers isn't really a form of child support like cooperation and understanding is.
I will be the first to admit that I am not a non-custodial parent. I do dread the idea though. I'd rather get divorced before having kids, and I have. It was the only choice I had. I wouldn't lie to myself about that.
AUG 15, 2007 03:13 PM
DhD_PillowPants said:
reprobate said:
Wow. Just wow.
For all the bad press that deadbeat dads get in this country, y'all sure got their backs. Here's a news flash, this law only applies to parents in arrears that have been reported to and investigated by the state who are then certified by the federal government and need a new or renewal passport. About the rarest of fucking circumstances but hey, let's all worry about how "unfair" that might be to daddy.
I don't think anyone here thinks that deadbeat dads are win.
No, but people sure are racking their brains for bizarre and improbable "unfair" circumstances.
How is it 'rare' that a person has been reported to the state for arrears and would need a passport?
Well, let's see. Most arrearages never get reported to the state for collection. Most arrearages never reach $2500. Most people who are in arrearage and have been reported to the state for collection and are in arrears to the tune of $2500 are not the victims of circumstance. Most people never need passports. Most people who genuinely need them already have one, and they're good for ten years. So, yeah, pretty fucking rare.
Sure there might be some guy somewhere who works on oil pipelines and ends up in some bureaucratic fuckup that lasts for months or years and is too stupid to take what he owes and put it aside and his passport expires and he needs it to go work on oil rigs in Qatar, but really that's not what happens here. What happens is guys put their assets in the new wife's name and make money under the table, or move around so that the courts can't catch up with them and then all of a sudden they want to go to Cancun
AUG 15, 2007 03:48 PM
The only things I see posted here are actually fairly legitimate questions, I don't see anyone really 'reaching' for explanations. In fact, the only things I see anyone stating is that not everyone owes because they are a deadbeat, some people have already addressed arrears and made arrangements for payment, and some people have to travel for work.
It is actually very possible for a person to owe back child support in amounts over $2500 for reasons other than being a deadbeat. Hell, we show as having arrears because we didn't have documentation for every penny given for child support before arrangements were finally made through the state. And even with her stating and swearing before court that we already paid X amount of money, without receipt, we had nothing. Our mistake, but it doesn't make my husband a fucking deadbeat.
Q: Why do I owe unpaid support?
A: There are several ways in which you may have unpaid support. Here is a list of possible reasons:
* From the time that the court orders you to pay support, if you do not pay the complete amount that was ordered, the remaining amounts are unpaid support.
* If it was necessary to establish paternity in your case, the court may enter a judgment for support for up to three years prior to the time of the court order, in addition to a monthly support amount. When these amounts are not paid, you will have unpaid support.
* The court may have ordered you to reimburse the custodial parent for some medical expenses for the child. If the court ordered you to pay some of those expenses and you have not paid them, those amounts are unpaid support.
* Interest accrues on all unpaid support at ten percent per annum. This means that if you do not pay your full monthly support, interest accrues on what you did not pay. A judgment for past support, spousal maintenance, and medical expenses also accrue interest (but interest does not accrue on interest).
* Arizona law provides for a monthly handling fee for support payments and other administrative costs. If you do not pay the monthly fee with your support payment, your account will show a balance.
* If your employer issues paychecks on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, you may also have unpaid support. The court order is for a monthly support amount. When employers pay on a weekly or bi-weekly basis they may divide the annual amount of support by the number of paychecks issued in the year. This results in your monthly support amount being underpaid ten months of the year and overpaid in two months. During the ten months of underpayment, your case will have unpaid support and accumulate interest.
source
Maybe it is just the class/culture I am more familiar with, but I don't know a lot of people stashing money with a new wife and living it up in Mexico. I see more issues with guys not being told that a baby is theirs until the kid is 5, and having half of their paycheck taken for arrears. Of course, none that I can think of would likely need a passport, so I guess you have me there. But travel isn't necessarily always for fun or even work. This is a nation of immigrants, and families aren't always stateside.
Pretty much all I am saying is that just like the majority of laws and rules in this country, some people end up getting screwed by the system.
AUG 15, 2007 04:33 PM
DhD_PillowPants said:
The only things I see posted here are actually fairly legitimate questions, I don't see anyone really 'reaching' for explanations.
I beg to differ. No one here is standing up for the kinds of these poor misunderstood fathers.
Pretty much all I am saying is that just like the majority of laws and rules in this country, some people end up getting screwed by the system.
No, most of them are screwed for being stupid. Don't contest paternity in court if someone you were fucking ends up with a kid. That's stupid. Do the test yourself and pay the $800. It takes a month and then you'll know. Don't fuck people and disappear so completely that you can fail to notice that you have a child for five years. I can't be the only one who runs into my ex at the grocery store. Don't say, well, I don't have a court order, so I'm not paying shit for two years until the divorce is final. That's stupid.
This is really simple, basic, grown up stuff. If you spilt up and you have kids, you look at the tables and figure out what you owe, and you pay by check. You don't wait for a final custody and support order, or a filiation order, or for the state to get involved. Do those two simple things and you will avoid 99.9% of these problems, because the reason there are state collection arms and penalties for arrearages is that kids need to fucking eat, even if there's no court order, and having to set up a bureaucracy and involve the courts in every little detail is an incredibly expensive waste of resources.
AUG 15, 2007 04:56 PM
Sometimes I feel like I am one of the few grown-ups on this site (reprobate obviously excepted). Anyone who fails to support their children is the lowest of the low and I have zero concern for them.
AUG 15, 2007 04:57 PM
reprobate said:
DhD_PillowPants said:
The only things I see posted here are actually fairly legitimate questions, I don't see anyone really 'reaching' for explanations.
I beg to differ. No one here is standing up for the kinds of these poor misunderstood fathers.
Pretty much all I am saying is that just like the majority of laws and rules in this country, some people end up getting screwed by the system.
No, most of them are screwed for being stupid. Don't contest paternity in court if someone you were fucking ends up with a kid. That's stupid. Do the test yourself and pay the $800. It takes a month and then you'll know. Don't fuck people and disappear so completely that you can fail to notice that you have a child for five years. I can't be the only one who runs into my ex at the grocery store. Don't say, well, I don't have a court order, so I'm not paying shit for two years until the divorce is final. That's stupid.
This is really simple, basic, grown up stuff. If you spilt up and you have kids, you look at the tables and figure out what you owe, and you pay by check. You don't wait for a final custody and support order, or a filiation order, or for the state to get involved. Do those two simple things and you will avoid 99.9% of these problems, because the reason there are state collection arms and penalties for arrearages is that kids need to fucking eat, even if there's no court order, and having to set up a bureaucracy and involve the courts in every little detail is an incredibly expensive waste of resources.
It is so funny that you assume the father is the one running and disappearing in all of these cases. That women never get pregnant and take off, or deny to you that you are the father and then have some other schmuck raise your kid for 5 years until they break up.
Or that when a woman leaves, she always leaves a forwarding address and a way to contact her. And that anyone will help you track her down.
That she will stay in one state long enough to actually get any type of child support payments set up through the state. Or that once you can finally pin her ass down in court, you are told that what you have been paying isn't what the court wants you to pay.
Shit fucking happens. Pinning every situation down to the dad being the fuckup, the loser, the one who doesn't want to take care of his kids is fucking bullshit.
AUG 15, 2007 05:20 PM
Gah. I don't even know why I let this aggravate me. Personal pet peeve, if you will.
Dads who don't take care of their kids suck. Moms who don't take care of their kids suck. Sometimes shit happens and life gets screwy and stuff goes wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all dads that owe arrears owe them because they are scumbags.
That was all I really was trying to say.
AUG 15, 2007 05:32 PM
DhD_PillowPants said:
reprobate said:
DhD_PillowPants said:
The only things I see posted here are actually fairly legitimate questions, I don't see anyone really 'reaching' for explanations.
I beg to differ. No one here is standing up for the kinds of these poor misunderstood fathers.
Pretty much all I am saying is that just like the majority of laws and rules in this country, some people end up getting screwed by the system.
No, most of them are screwed for being stupid. Don't contest paternity in court if someone you were fucking ends up with a kid. That's stupid. Do the test yourself and pay the $800. It takes a month and then you'll know. Don't fuck people and disappear so completely that you can fail to notice that you have a child for five years. I can't be the only one who runs into my ex at the grocery store. Don't say, well, I don't have a court order, so I'm not paying shit for two years until the divorce is final. That's stupid.
This is really simple, basic, grown up stuff. If you spilt up and you have kids, you look at the tables and figure out what you owe, and you pay by check. You don't wait for a final custody and support order, or a filiation order, or for the state to get involved. Do those two simple things and you will avoid 99.9% of these problems, because the reason there are state collection arms and penalties for arrearages is that kids need to fucking eat, even if there's no court order, and having to set up a bureaucracy and involve the courts in every little detail is an incredibly expensive waste of resources.
It is so funny that you assume the father is the one running and disappearing in all of these cases. That women never get pregnant and take off, or deny to you that you are the father and then have some other schmuck raise your kid for 5 years until they break up.
Or that when a woman leaves, she always leaves a forwarding address and a way to contact her. And that anyone will help you track her down.
That she will stay in one state long enough to actually get any type of child support payments set up through the state. Or that once you can finally pin her ass down in court, you are told that what you have been paying isn't what the court wants you to pay.
Shit fucking happens. Pinning every situation down to the dad being the fuckup, the loser, the one who doesn't want to take care of his kids is fucking bullshit.
You've both got very valid points. Nothing is as black and white as "if the father owes arrears then he's a fuck up" but at the same time, the bitterness that can be involved in a custody battle is the height of human indignity. As a 7 year old I watched my parents duke it out in court for 2 years for custody. In the end, the judge settled the matter with one simple question to my father, "is she a good mother?" and when my father answered "yes, she is" that was the end of it. If he'd been that honest with himself in the beginning instead of making life miserable for my mother out of spite then it would have save everyone involved a lot of emotional and financial scarring.
That being said, my father paid his child support right up until the day i turned 21 at which time I received a letter saying "I've paid my dues" and that was the last communication we had with each other. So just paying your child support doesn't make you a good father either... I'd rather see a father who didn't pay a cent in child support but who supports his children emotionally and developmentally than a father who simply forks over a % of his pay cheque and feels he's done the right thing by his child.
AUG 15, 2007 05:43 PM
DhD, I'm under the impression that the vast majority of cases like this involve dads who don't pay, rather than moms who disappear.
Also, since most Americans do not have a passport and they only renew every 10 years this would seem to affect a small percentage of people at most.











_DictionaryGirl_
NEWSWIRE
San Diego, CA
AUG 15, 2007 04:23 AM