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aldoushuxley

aldoushuxley

USA
November 2005

AUG 12, 2007 08:19 PM

Some one above doesn't seem to know what she is talking about when it comes to the military. It is pretty obvious that had the female testified the guy's would have been arrested. The only conclussion I can make of this is a. she was lying about the situation or b. she was insane. You would think that if you were raped you would want to stop some one else from being raped, by the person who raped you. though rape in the military does happen, it is reported and dealt with much more effectively and thoroughly then in the civillian sector. The only person who would ever get away with rape in the military is like in above circumstances or if there is a corrupt chain of command. Their are so many more rapes that go unpunished in the civillian sector that it is a little ridiculous to make statements about the military like that. The military is so much more different than it used to be, we need everyone we have so the whole females are treated worse is a load of crap and mostly isolated incidents. One thing you won't find any where but the military is that everyone gets paid the same no matter their sex. I hate threads like this.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

AUG 12, 2007 09:12 PM

aldoushuxley said:
Some one above doesn't seem to know what she is talking about when it comes to the military. It is pretty obvious that had the female testified the guy's would have been arrested. The only conclussion I can make of this is a. she was lying about the situation or b. she was insane. You would think that if you were raped you would want to stop some one else from being raped, by the person who raped you.


As many as sixty percent of all rapes go unreported. That's just from Wikipedia, and it's hard to verify, but it jibes with my own anecdotal experience, as well - I've known several women who have been raped, but none who have been to court over it.

There are a lot of possible reasons for this, and I'm not going to bother to go into all of them, but when Hernandez said she just wanted to get on with her life, I'm inclined to take that at face value, whatever may have happened to her.

She also says the incident was nonconsensual. Without further information on the specifics of both the incident and the context, that claim is basically impossible to evaluate, but there is neither any reason to presume her dishonesty.

Also, you just called Cheyenne either a liar or a psycho. That's a pretty strong statement.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

AUG 13, 2007 12:55 AM

aldoushuxley said:
Some one above doesn't seem to know what she is talking about when it comes to the military. It is pretty obvious that had the female testified the guy's would have been arrested. The only conclussion I can make of this is a. she was lying about the situation or b. she was insane. You would think that if you were raped you would want to stop some one else from being raped, by the person who raped you.



And you know all about being raped, what with being a man and all...

Coming from someone who was raped, and didn't report it, I can assure you that there are hundreds of reasons (if not more) that women do not report rape, or don't follow it up even if they do report it. Not the least of which is people accusing her of lying, which a number of people have already done in this thread alone. I can only imagine what it must be like in a good ol' boys club like the army.

Iseult

Iseult

United Kingdom
September 2005

AUG 13, 2007 11:06 AM

aldoushuxley said:
Some one above doesn't seem to know what she is talking about when it comes to the military. It is pretty obvious that had the female testified the guy's would have been arrested. The only conclussion I can make of this is a. she was lying about the situation or b. she was insane.


Unfortunately for your argument, the person above to whom you refer is not only in the military, but was drugged, raped and was consequently compelled to endure a complete lack of regard for both her interests and justice. (Unless, of course you believe that she is either 'lying or insane' too, that is.) As such, I would argue that she does indeed know what she is talking about.

You would think that if you were raped you would want to stop some one else from being raped, by the person who raped you.


Yes, it is quite easy for those who have not been through such an ordeal to imagine what those who have might want. Unfortunately, naive ideas don't necessarily match up to the reality of the situation.

though rape in the military does happen, it is reported and dealt with much more effectively and thoroughly then in the civillian sector. The only person who would ever get away with rape in the military is like in above circumstances or if there is a corrupt chain of command. Their are so many more rapes that go unpunished in the civillian sector that it is a little ridiculous to make statements about the military like that. The military is so much more different than it used to be, we need everyone we have so the whole females are treated worse is a load of crap and mostly isolated incidents.


You may be correct, although personally speaking, I would be inclined to regard someone's first-hand experience of the matter at hand as rather more valuable than your vague assurances that "(rape)...is reported and dealt with much more effectively and thoroughly then in the civilian sector." If you know where I could find such information, I would of course be interested to read about rape-victims in the military who have praise for how their case was handled, having had the military supportively and successfully secure the guilty party's conviction. Such accounts seem to be a little harder to find.

One thing you won't find any where but the military is that everyone gets paid the same no matter their sex. I hate threads like this.


Equal pay is great. Unfortunately that has absolutely nothing to do with rape or how rape cases are handled.

sitar

sitar

Philadelphia, PA
June 2004

AUG 13, 2007 11:47 AM

Bitch_PhD said:

LordHAlmighty said:
Bitch Doctor said...


only the ones who can prove that they're not potential rapists should be allowed to do these jobs



Well, since rape is legally defined as unwanted penile/vaginal intercourse, that DOES mean every man is a "potential rapist".



Hey, I didn't say it.




with strap-on technology what it is today, pretty much everyone is a potential rapist.

everyone is pretty much a potential everything.

ever heard the saying "there but for the Grace of God go I"?




SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

AUG 13, 2007 02:52 PM

LordHAlmighty said:
Sock Puppet said...


You say po-ta-to, I say "answer my post, or STFU".



... usually questions are answered, not statements.



If you'd like to look back at your own contributions to this thread, the first post you made replied to a statement (by Bitch_PhD). Now, what are you complaining about?

Exactly what did you want me to respond to, Socko? Whether or not war was "important" enough to let this "sort of behavior" interfere with the process?

Hmm... I thought I was clear in stating that deliberately targeting and victimizing people - albeit for rape or war - were basically one in the same thing.

Now, as to my take on the importance of *this* war? Well now, we can't let the deaths, injuries, rapes, etc., of a few hundred (thousand?) people on either side of the line with the Manifest Destiny of westernizing the Middle East now, can we?

Oh, you don't have to answer that. You can just STFU, yourself.



The difficulty I'm having here is with these two paragraphs, which you have chosen to omit from your reply (if you think the post gets too long, you can always use spoilers):

LordHAlmighty said:

... some might say that rape & war/po-tay-to po-tah-to...

Isn't there also another - albeit distinctly unlikely - possibily here that maybe she wasn't raped, afterall? I know that's REALLY farfetched (and I'm not using sarcastic overtones here, nobody in their right mind would fake a rape report... but, if she wasn't in her right mind...) but it's happened before. What about the Duke incident?



The parts I'm having trouble with are bolded.

logan_tom

logan_tom

West Palm Beach, FL
June 2007

AUG 15, 2007 12:23 AM

Sydni said:
I could just be ignorant, but to me it seems like rape charges in the military have seemed to leave the womans integrity demolished and instead of feeling proud and relieved that they testified against their attackers, they are ridiculed.

I'm sure that there are cases that have been up to justice, but it could be that the military is just really unwilling to admit (and more willing to humiliate and shame the person filing charges) that they get rapists amongst their midsts too.



Mortifying as it is for me to suggest, this strikes me more as the military equivalent of a cost-benefit analysis. Considering the cost of training each individual airman, and considering that these cases more often than not involve the word of one female cadet against several male cadets, from a command standpoint... well, you see where I'm going with this. Just a thought, though, again, a highly unpleasant one.

FunkyPhantom

FunkyPhantom

Chapel Hill, NC
June 2007

AUG 15, 2007 06:06 PM

It seems to me where this could go so many different ways,

Now this is not to say that the way the courts are acting in this particular case is utter BULLSHIT

Of course the men are testifying
If they DID do it, they are going to be the shitheaded sleazbags they may be and try and doge what evil they hath done
However, if they DIDNT do it, of course they are going to testify cause they dont want to go to prison for what they didnt do.

And its the Same for the woman
If she is LYING she doesnt want to be called on it
However if she ISNT, the whole having a hard time seeing the faces of those who hurt you in such a horribly evil way is a buyable reason

I have had friends who were raped, and there sole concern was getting the bastards that had done it behind bars

I also have a friend who was accused of rape, he didnt do it, and he testified his heart out so he didnt go to prison for somethign he didnt do

something is missing here

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

AUG 16, 2007 09:13 PM

Clidna said:
And you know all about being raped, what with being a man and all...


Was that necessary?

-TM

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

AUG 18, 2007 01:50 AM

Unfortunately for us, rape is and always will be predominantly a women's issue. Could I have phrased that better? Probably. But what he said pissed me off - he was obviously talking out his ass about something he knows little to nothing about, judging by his post.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 18, 2007 01:20 PM

Clidna said:
Unfortunately for us, rape is and always will be predominantly a women's issue.



so you casually dismiss any man who has been raped, since it's just a woman's issue? wow.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

AUG 18, 2007 01:35 PM

I believe she used the word "predominantly." She followed it with, "Could I have phrased that better? Probably."

I don't see where she was wrong in saying that or insinuated that dismissed any rape against a male.

Without knowing the actual figures, I would guess that rapes against women is somewhere in the mid to high 90s percentile range compared to rapes against a male.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

AUG 18, 2007 01:39 PM

TheGringo said:
I believe she used the word "predominantly." She followed it with, "Could I have phrased that better? Probably."

I don't see where she was wrong in saying that or insinuated that dismissed any rape against a male.

Without knowing the actual figures, I would guess that rapes against women is somewhere in the mid to high 90s percentile range compared to rapes against a male.


Your guess is apparently pretty close to the mark.

An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)

saltonsea

saltonsea

Toronto, ON
July 2004

AUG 18, 2007 10:17 PM

Zarth said:

TheGringo said:
I believe she used the word "predominantly." She followed it with, "Could I have phrased that better? Probably."

I don't see where she was wrong in saying that or insinuated that dismissed any rape against a male.

Without knowing the actual figures, I would guess that rapes against women is somewhere in the mid to high 90s percentile range compared to rapes against a male.


Your guess is apparently pretty close to the mark.

An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)



that are reported.....

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

AUG 18, 2007 10:32 PM

saltonsea said:

Zarth said:

TheGringo said:
I believe she used the word "predominantly." She followed it with, "Could I have phrased that better? Probably."

I don't see where she was wrong in saying that or insinuated that dismissed any rape against a male.

Without knowing the actual figures, I would guess that rapes against women is somewhere in the mid to high 90s percentile range compared to rapes against a male.


Your guess is apparently pretty close to the mark.

An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)


that are reported.....


It just says "estimated" there, not whether or not underreporting is factored in. If it isn't, then considering that something like 90% of male rapes (though not necessarily victims) go unreported, that implies some truly inconceivable numbers.

And I very much doubt that it would shift the proportion of victims enough to make it a genuinely egalitarian issue.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

AUG 19, 2007 01:59 AM

Fixer said:

Clidna said:
Unfortunately for us, rape is and always will be predominantly a women's issue.



so you casually dismiss any man who has been raped, since it's just a woman's issue? wow.



I don't casually dismiss anybody being raped, male or female.

I would go on to defend my point, but I see that TheGringo and Zarth have already taken the words from my mouth... and probably made them prettier than I could have.

imclever

imclever

Kent, WA
February 2007

SEP 05, 2007 09:15 PM

Morgan said:

imclever said:
That is still the dumbest thing I have heard recently.



Yeah, avoiding latrines because you're likely to get raped there is totally dumb. whatever



Awww, crap, I forgot about this article.

The reason I think it is the dumbest thing I ever heard is because for anyone to have to fear going to the fucking john is insane. The fucking military has spent shitloads of time and money to teach these fucking idiots (not the female soldiers, the other fucking idiots) to not be Neanderthal fuckwits. And yet the female members of my country's armed services can't go to their commanding fuckwit and say "Hey Major Fuckwit, Sargent Salivate and Private Peeper are making us feel unsafe when we go to the fucking latrine, and rather than get raped by Lieutenant Limpdick, we would like you to do something about these rapacious assholes". Upon which Major Fuckwit could respond "it will be done before you can tinkle in your BDUs".

See? Dumbest thing i have heard in a while. No one should have to deal with an organization that fucking dumb.

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