NEWS: Do You Want Kids? Do You Want to Have the Option?

CULTURE: Do You Want Kids? Do You Want to Have the Option?

I assume that by now folks have heard about this article about the difficulties 20-ish women have convincing docs to give them tubal ligations. Any young woman who has decided she does not want to have kids, and has tried to find a doc to perform a ligation, knows what I'm talking about; a friend of mine recently had herself "spayed" (her words) at the age of 40 because she was finally old enough that docs decided she wasn't likely to regret her decision. She and I kind of joked, wryly, about what really is the point at this age--I'm thinking of giving a second kid one more try and who knows if it'll even happen, and I'm only about six months younger than she is.

On the other hand. It's worth remembering, if you're one of the white, college educated, independent, ambitious young women who does not want kids, that there are other women--younger, less educated, darker skinned, less comfortably middle class, less physically abled, less socially and culturally central--for whom the right not to be sterilized is still an issue. Surely some of you remember C.R.A.C.K. (aka "Project Prevention"), the organization that pays women with addiction problems to undergo permanent sterilization. Their website talks about "how we help the children," but as a number of feminist groups and social justice advocates have been pointing out for years, this approach is not only indifferent to the problems of the women it bribes, it doesn't much help any kids they already have. You don't have to be indifferent to the problems of drug use during pregnancy to recognize that media coverage and popular perception of the problems is hysterically exaggerated and more focused on blaming poor mothers--and dismissing their children--than actually addressing the problems of addiction, poverty, and prenatal care.

They're separate issues, but they both boil down to the same thing: "helping" women by deciding what they need *for* them.

Bitch_PhD thinks none of us can genuinely be said to "choose" freely as long as some choices aren't available to everyone.

I haven't, and the link didn't work. Though it does seem strange (and revealing) that tubal ligations are not as readily available as vasectomies.

But that Project Prevention group seem even more disturbing.

It was optional though, right? With the exception of the rogue hospital? These women were given a choice.

Less crack-addicted babies is bad, how? Isn't the drugged-out mother, minority or otherwise, just as much to blame for taking money as the person offering? Or does the act of being a drugged-up mess absolve one of not only all kid-related responsibilites but financial ones as well?

Too many people/kids and people/kids having babies for no good reason. Anyone willing to take money to stop procreating should be given the operation, a medal and a lollipop.

I do not want children. I had a vasectomy two years ago. The urologist who performed the surgery was herself a childless person who didn't give me the interrogation that I was expecting.

My brother had the exact procedure (except for the use of a laser) done many years earlier. Even though he already had two kids - it required a consultation and what he remembers as a two week "cooling off" period where he could think about whether or not he's done having children. His doctor tried relentlessly talking him out of it.

I don't know if it's a true gender bias for women because I wasn't born with ovaries (although...that WOULD explain those strange pains below my abdomen). It's possible that the cases cited are more about the individual doctor rather than anything else.

I don't know, I'd be more inclined to put the lion's share of the blame with the person that is dangerously manipulating someone in a vulnerable position.

You know, if I walked into a hospital and asked for someone to chop off my perfectly healthy left hand, I'd have a hard time convincing a doctor to do it. With the bizarre exception of plastic surgery, doctors are loathe to perform any operation that isn't for health reasons, particularly one that permanently stops any healthy part of the body from working.

Here.

I guess I'm assuming that the small percentage of people who actually 1) want to get clean, 2) manage the near impossible task of doing so, and 3) stay clean and eventually decide to bring a kid into this world, are probably strong enough people to turn down the money in the first place...

that made me laugh so hard.

I dunno - I don't think they're big on giving 20 yr old guys vasectomies either, altho that is vaguely more reversable...

I've heard from a lot of women that they found it very-difficult-to-impossible to get their tubes tied before the age of 30. It made me realize how cool my OB/GYN was. I was 29, and heard no objection from my doctor, when I had mine done. I have (and only ever wanted) one child.

Are you 27? 33? 40? Do you act the same way and want exactly the same things that you did when you were 19 or 20?

No.

Not really.

When more informed and intelligent people begin to give less preeminence to "what I want" and more weight to "what the planet will bear" (i.e. does Earth really need one more human?), we may expect many changes for the better of all. In the meantime, let no one interfere with our sacrosanct "freedoms of choice" - be it the choice to have a baby, eat veal, or drive a SUV.

why not just not have the operation but use protection, then you dont have kids and also dont get nice fun dieses...sorry to obv?

A+

I myself cannot have children, and I couldn't be happier. Now, trying to have a malfunctioning uterus removed before the age of 40 is a much loftier task than getting your tubes tied, alas, that is a completely different ballgame.

PLEASE other people, stop having babies, bc I bred a whole ton of them.

Meanwhile, apesamongus that is funny that you said Dr.'s wouldn't want to perform this operation bc it isn't for health reasons? You must not have a woman friend and must not know of the trials and tribulations of having active reporductive organs and the hassles, side effects, failures and medical consequences of birth control...

Because sometimes the protection doesn't work.....?

Well, that's just CRAZY talk.

Also, Fun Dieses sounds like something you'd find next to Pockie on the "Asian foods" shelf at the grocery store.

I know, damn my logic!

I don't want kids. I'm 31 and still nothing more than an over-grown child.

I am 100% sure, for more than one reason, that I don't want kids. These reasons are not likely to change with age. I wish I could get my tubes tied.

I also got a vasectomy, without having had children, at a youngish age, and I did get a waiting period and several interrogations,including lots of personal questions like "Is it because you have some sort of chronic disease?" and "What do you plan to tell your parents, friends?", etc.

I actually felt pretty insulted, but refrained being a smartass and saying it was because all my friends had peircings and tattoos and I wanted something cooler.

There really isn't any other choice for guys who don't want children -- it's condoms or vasectomies. If you like sex, have a partner who can't take birth control, and you're sick of having condoms break, most other options are pretty useless. I had had enough scares that I was essentially avoiding sex, which resulted in some broken relationships.

But because of the absurd inquisition I was given, I ultimately read through some urology journal papers about vasectomies and doctors' experiences with younger patients. Turns out that there have been several lawsuits where the younger patients claimed they weren't fully informed. I doubt many of them won, but the lawsuit alone is prohibitive for most doctors to consider the procedure.

That puts a bit of a different spin on what would otherwise be an issue of choice and doctor capriciousness.

Huh?

For me, it was because I didn't want my girlfriend to take birth control any longer.

That and the fact that I didn't want kids.

Crap, I was going to type more but I think I have a dying coral in my fish tank. Gotta go.

right. it's not like people should be responsible for their own actions or anything.