erratic_prophet said:
I don't think Cho listened to Marilyn Manson, but I'm going to go ahead and shift the blame from video games to Manson. This is how this game works right, you just keep shifting blame until something fits?
Sorry bro, just read an article in Revolver about it. He listened to Collective Soul.
McMahon has taken an anti-substance stance in the past. While I can't place any names of personalities that they suspended due to steroid use (and I'm too lazy to Google that shit), Jeff Hardy and Eddie Guerrero both were out of the WWE for a while due to drug habits. In fact, while I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie was on the juice (compare his size from his WCW days to just before he died), his heart failure was as much attributable to cocaine as anything else (see: Rod Beck).
Anyway, Vince has expressed intent in the past to punish substance abusers, and I'm sure he'll take that approach if he goes before congress. Whether the Fed turned a blind eye when it was convenient, and slapped some wrists when it was necessary only matters because it's set them up to be unaccountable for the actions of their employees. Call it the Major League Baseball defense.
bairdduvessa said:
as much as i deteste the WWE and all of its offspring, what happens there is none of congress' business. their buisness is to vote n improving the nation, judicial investigations should be set up by the judicial branch. congress should be more concerned about passing laws against those who are moraly and financially bankrupting our country---their doners.
Moreover, the comments by Waxman et al concerning WWE influence over the 'utes' of America are laughable considering the influence of video games on youth still goes overlooked. Why is putting Vince McMahon in the hot seat more important than Congress sending a similar letter to the Entertainment Software Review Board in the wake of the video-game inspired madness of Cho Seung-Hui that resulted in 32 murders at Virginia Tech University earlier this year?
Oh you have to fucking kidding me. Video Game Inspired madness? Who the fuck are you, Bill O'reilly? What the fuck does a probe into steroid / performance enhancing drug abuse have to do with fucking video games? Or fucking Lindsay Lohan, who's, you know, currently facing criminal charges in relation to her drug related crimes? How the hell does this shit even make into onto the newswire?
From game news site GWN:
Just after the shooting, Dr. Phil and religious anti-game crusader Jack Thompson were all-too-quick to point the finger at video games as being somehow at blame. We can now confirm that not a single video game was found in the dorm room of the killer. .....Also, according to Cho Seung Hui's roommates, the man never even played video games during his rare appearances in the common living area in the dorm.
A bit more official, from CNN:
Virginia State Police searched Seung-Hui's room at around 9:06 PM on April 16th and recovered 16 pieces of evidence. Most of the items were fairly average including combination locks, notepads and documents, but police also grabbed the killer's Compaq computer, two cases of compact disks and an 80 GB hard drive. CNN has obtained a copy of the search warrant and the list of items collected. You can read that document here (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/04/17/warrant.pdf) .
You can see from the list that no video game boxes, joysticks, controller pads or software were seized. There were also no game consoles in the dorm room, indeed Seung-Hui's roommate has told police and reporters that he's never saw the killer play any video games.
to say that wwe isnt responsible for the ill-effects of steroids on its wrestlers is incredibly ignorant. to compare steroid use among these entertainers to cocaine use by lyndsay lohan is just plain stupid.
As much as I love pro 'rasslin' it needs to be cleaned up.
Vince McMahon kills performers. Period. The absolutely ludicrous schedule these men (and women) keep is shameful, and it only serves to line the pockets of the McMahon family. Simply put, WWE is successful enough that the performers do not need to put in indy wrestler road time.
He is truly one of the most shameless human beings on the planet. I'm frankly surprised he didn't go ahead with the "who killed Vince McMahon" storyline even in the face of Benoit's crimes and suicide.
I was under the impression that Cho Seung-Hui wasn't a video gamer. Everyone assumed he was, and he was playing violent video games round the clock, and then when the authorities finally searched his room they found... nothing. No consoles, no video games, and a computer with no games installed. That's what I heard on all the news reports and articles I read in the wake of the Virginia Tech thing.
I've heard that some of his friends have given circumstantial evidence that he played CounterStrike. So what? As far as video games go, CS is pretty fucking tame. I would say it's at least as tame as America's Army, the game developed by the US Military to hype people up on a military career and get them to enlist.
Game over. Stop using video games as the scapegoat for all the violent shit that happens in America. It isn't the problem. Shut up.
+1 to whoever said "how does this shit even make it onto the newswire?" After the Lindsay Lohan and Barry Bonds comparisons, all we need now is a Hitler comparison to make this article truly a piece of shit.
PS - I really like this bit...
To suggest that a selective few athletes and entertainers be made examples of for the sake of political grandstanding or as a result of a breakdown in one particular node of the medical system is a failure to recognize the unique nature of the emotional and physiological craft that goes into entertaining people on a global scale. Ultimately, protecting and promoting North American culture around the world requires a greater depth of understanding and exploration than any single government agency can possible hope to accomplish by bullying a few wrestlers around.
First of all: there are quite a few different cultures in North America. Aside from the United States there's Canada, which has a pretty interesting set of cultures on its own. There's Quebec, which is inside Canada, which is vastly different from all the other cultures in Canada itself. Then there's the United States, which has many, many, many cultures inside it. When you say "protecting and promoting North American culture" I really have no idea what you're trying to protect or promote, because this sentence is so vague it's meaningless, but for the sake of argument I'll go with it.
Second: Protecting and promoting North American culture are two vastly different things. Protecting insinuates that there's some kind of attack on North American culture, which I really don't think there is. If you want to talk about the attack on other cultures by American (not North American, see above) culture, I think we'd have a good conversation.
Promoting American culture... how can you promote a culture? It's not a fucking box of cereal, you shouldn't be trying to sell your culture to other people, or force it upon them, as it is in most cases. We tried that already with the American Indians, and I think I'm in the clear when I say that most everybody recognizes that the colonists were pieces of shit for what happened back then. Culture is the result of people living together in a specific area - it's the rituals, habits, language, dress, art, etc. that spring up around a specific people. That's why culture varies from place to place, and person to person. Why would you want to promote one culture over another?
The idea that we should be "promoting American culture" around the world is kind of scary to me. I like that there are other cultures around the world. I like the fact that not everyone is American, and not everyone lives the way Americans might live, or think like Americans might think, or talk like they talk, or eat like they eat. I like the idea of going abroad and visiting these places, and expanding my cultural horizons, and experiencing the way that other people around the world live and communicate, and the idea that we need to "promote American culture around the world" is, honestly, disgusting to me.
erratic_prophet said:
I don't think Cho listened to Marilyn Manson, but I'm going to go ahead and shift the blame from video games to Manson. This is how this game works right, you just keep shifting blame until something fits?
This is the most ridiculous waste of congress time. We have so many problems in this country and this is what they want to investigate? So let me get this straight, they want to look into whether pro wrestlers are doping? Sure pro wrestling is physical and people get hurt and such, but there are scripts and for the most part the wrestlers/actors stay true to the script. Are we going to start testing stunt men in movies, Jackie Chan and other entertainers that do physical activities? What a bunch of crap!
The WWE is a joke. It's is so obvious a large number of those guys are juicing, and it's really quite sad. Now, congress getting into it...not a good idea probably. I wasn't even aware the WWE tested. I wouldn't be surprised if their testing consists of the wrestlers having a note from their mommy saying "he isn't using steroids". Vince himself has juiced I bet.
It's "entertainment." Well...to some people. I have no clue why they would need to test anyone. It's not like the matches result in a surprise winner.
If people want to watch buffed out, sweaty men in tights grope each other while following a script, then I don't see why the use of steroids would make or break a wrestling fan.
"If computer games affected us we'd be running around darkened rooms, munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive music." -Anon (believed to be a Sony representative)
Personally I used to play that one with the Pirate Guybrush Threepwood. Monkey Island I think. I don't dress like a pirate or go swashbuckling but I sure love Rum!
InnocentSid said:
This is the most ridiculous waste of congress time. We have so many problems in this country and this is what they want to investigate?
That's what governments do dude. Ignore the real problems and find scapegoats. Same thing no matter where you go in the world. The Australian government just failed miserably at convicting an (innocent) Indian doctor who was suspected of having terrorist connections. Instead of looking into the incorrect handling of our legal system the government jingled the proverbial keys in front of the public and changed the subject entirely. We're all concerned about logging now or something.
Jackie Chan and other entertainers that do physical activities?!
Leave Jackie Chan out of this. Poor guy having to act with Chris Rock.
spinysquid said:
to say that wwe isnt responsible for the ill-effects of steroids on its wrestlers is incredibly ignorant. to compare steroid use among these entertainers to cocaine use by lyndsay lohan is just plain stupid.
Vince doesn't put a gun to people's heads and force them to abuse steroids to the point their hearts will overgrow and seize. Myopic people who see the short-term gain of being as big as possible in WWE abuse steroids of their own volition. That said:
- Eddie Guerrero is a bad example. He did a lot more than steroids.
- Davey Boy Smith is a bad example. He also did a lot more than steroids.
- Ray Traylor, judging by his social circles, probably falls in line with the latter two.
Keep in mind, the WWE has no offseason. The travel schedule by itself is grueling, outside of the fact they're traveling to beat up their bodies for money. On top of that, many abuse steroids. On top of THAT, many wrestlers also seek a social life after shows, which includes many different intoxicant types.
A good example of a wrestling casualty is Miss Elizabeth. She died about the same age as the other examples, but she never wrestled. I cannot even recall her so much as taking a bump ever. She died because of painkiller abuse. Mind you, steroids are something to keep far away from, but don't think that's the only thing killing professional wrestlers.
The non-medicinal use of steroids is INDEED Congress' domain to investigate and legislate. A company that markets to children (and their adult equivalents) that even below the surface encourages the abuse of legal medicinces (steroids) for non-medicinal purposes is something I don't mind Congress getting on top of.
I'm glad to know that MY schlocky sport doesn't currently have fixed outcomes, and the only ones using hormonal medicines are those at risk of facing the "18 year injury."
TaoAndCoffee
Stoney Creek, ON
June 2007
AUG 01, 2007 08:05 AM