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edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 03, 2007 05:48 AM

what cash said is true--you would miss out on some great conversations pretending to not be american. stereotypes are fun to discuss and break down. one of the most interesting things you can do is travel and get to know people from other countries in an honest way.

i have had this discussion before with other americans. i think part of the problem is the self-obsessed american can't admit that people don't really care that much. they relish in the fantasy that europeans care so much and are full of so much hate they have to be "on edge". they think they have to pretend to be something they aren't or else get defensive. i *have* seen americans get defensive when they don't have to. it seems like people are either "i'm so sorry, i'm american" or else "fuck you, i'm american"---both attitudes that totally suck and are actually 100% unnecessary.

people have stuff going on in their own countries and lives and are more interested in what kind of a person you are.

Domo_Kun

Domo_Kun

Rockford, IL
March 2005

JUL 03, 2007 05:54 AM

People were so pissed off about Iraq, and Bush decided to invade while I was living in Toronto. I went out soon after the invasion to do a video shoot where I needed an American flag. Some hoser told me to "put that piece of shit on the ground, where it belongs", and I decided then that my best bet was to pass myself off as Canadian until the world was less angry with the United States.

When I was in the UK (Birmingham), in a pub, I let slip that I'm American, and some yob decided to blame me personally for the war and for dragging the UK into it, too. I ignored him up until he tried to punch me (for ignoring him). That incident reinforced my belief that I am better off pretending to be Canadian.

I know I'm missing out on some good conversations, but, based on my past experiences, I don't feel comfortable letting people know that I'm American when I'm overseas. Over here, it's different. I've had excellent conversations with Europeans while in Milwaukee, Madison, and Chicago, which started by talking about nationality.

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 03, 2007 06:01 AM

hmmmmmmm...sounds like maybe you shouldn't admit being american while in dodgy pubs or while waving an american flag around. otherwise i promise you're pretty safe.

Domo_Kun

Domo_Kun

Rockford, IL
March 2005

JUL 03, 2007 06:20 AM

edith said:
hmmmmmmm...sounds like maybe you shouldn't admit being american while in dodgy pubs or while waving an american flag around. otherwise i promise you're pretty safe.



I wasn't waving the flag around. I had it furled.

As for the pub, it wasn't dodgy (well, not dodgy for Brum), and the publican(?) and I were having a conversation.

Oz_the_Vamp

Oz_the_Vamp

Lorain, OH
June 2005

JUL 03, 2007 08:02 AM

I had to add this to my amazon wishlist. It's bound to be a funny read, eh? tongue

misguidedd

misguidedd

Edmonton, AB
November 2003

JUL 03, 2007 10:46 AM

Saraah said:
Isn't it better to change people's ideas of what being an "American" means?


Better, yes!
Easier, no.
frown
I wish every American thought as you do. Unfortunately, just demographically, the bulk of the people who are doing the most traveling and thus making the biggest impression on everyone are the cocksucker douchebags who make a hundred grand a year by being Mr. and Mrs. Selfish Ass. If you think about it, and obviously there are exceptions on both sides, but the overall trend in Western society is that mean, selfish people can make more money and/or afford to travel more by nature of their meanness and selfishness. They also demonstrate a powerful level of ignorance because of said selfish inward lack of perspective. Those who are more globally cultural and considerate and less offensive, honestly they tend to be younger and/or more left-leaning and/or more selfless and the bottom line, sad though it is, is that those people come out with less extra money to spend on "me" vacations. So they're lucky if they get abroad once every couple of years, whereas McDouche can afford to travel 2 or 3 times a year, reinforcing negative stereotypes as he goes. I have met so many complete fucking ASSHOLE Americans while traveling that I know it's not just a stereotype, the phrase "ugly American" exists as a result of a certain type of people always representing their country to the world.
On my last cruise I stood in horror and watched as this "uncle Ned" guy (yes, I actually learned his name on a cruise ship with a couple thousand people on it, that's how much of a dick this guy was) badgered a shopping advisor who was handing out vouchers for free jewelery, and he reduced her to TEARS. Why? Because the tenders were running behind due to turbulent harbour waters so he was going to miss his shore excursion. And he'll be damned if SOMEone, many people in fact, weren't going to get the shaft of his rage at mother nature. Because if the weather holds him up, someone must be at FAULT. This poor girl wasn't even anyone remotely involved with anything to do with the ship or the tenders, she was just the woman whose job it was to help you shop in the port destinations, and she was just walking up the tender line giving out free stuff. And this guy reduced her to blubbering rubble because he was late and she tried to give him something free. How fucking dare she. blackeyed
Anyway, my point was, people who are out there actively working to change stereotypes are my favorite kind of people, but unfortunately until the core values involved change for the 5% of the population who control 90% of the wealth (and thus have the money and time to fuck around in other countries), it's going to be a minority against a majority that has already been there before you and made people assume you're going to be a dick. And you can't blame people for wanting to distance themselves from that.
Thinking critically, of course, I know that Canadians must not be that much better... we share the same continent, the same standards of living, and what I'm arguing is the most important, the same class separation and linked value separation... So pretending to be a Canadian instead of an American shouldn't be that much of an upgrade in international interpersonal skills. But for some reason, the dozen times I've encountered total cockknobs while traveling, they've always been from the States. Maybe the sole difference is that Americans are conditioned to believe they're the center of the universe and own the world... I dunno, it's a mystery to me.
But the other side of it is that the world knows Americans from America's foreign policy, and they're unfortunately going to assume that you support America's foreign policy until you state otherwise, because mystifyingly there are actually people who do. And it's not an easy subject to bring up to everyone you interact with randomly.
"Hi. I'm Joe. I'm American, but I'm against the war in Iraq."
"uh, hi. Sooooo, you were about to order a bagel?"
You can see how some people would find it easier to just wear a Canadian flag and say eh at the end of things tongue




I saw that fun little tidbit on the evening news when it came out... It pissed me off then, and it still pisses me off now. And I'd like to say a few words on it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Canadians can't be as ignorant and stupid as Americans can be, that's not it at all. Both countries are too entrenched in capital-w Westernism and the mindless consumption that it entails, with all its luxuries and distractions, for the general populace to not average out to completely idiotic. Most people are too concerned about their television programs to give a flying fuck about politics, which is depressing.
But when you look at the actual questions, I'm not convinced that the survey was worth fuck-all as a barometer of pathetic and lame...
First of all, no one gives a shit about the Queen. The Queen is just a hold-over, she hasn't exercised any actual powers as Head of State in eleventy-billion years. It's counter-intuitive when you get a question like "who is the Head of State" to say the Queen, because you haven't been aware of the Queen in Canadian politics since... Well, probably since the '82 constitution. w00t, she's on our money, thaaaat's about it. And ironically, a lot of people knew how Canadian politics is laid out and said the Governor General, which is really arguably only technically incorrect. The Governor General exercises all of the Queen's powers by proxy, so if the Queen is the Head of State, the Governor General is a very solid answer to that question. But also wrong. This is why it is a retarded question.
Much more importantly, let me tell you why only 30% aced the question about the number and name of Canadian provinces and territories:
It has changed since most of us learned it.
Nunavut was officially created in 1999. So, were anyone who's over like 20 to answer that question based on what they were taught in grade school Canadian geography, they would FAIL it. It's not like Nunavut makes big news stories with its 30,000 people in the entire province and its fucking 6,000 person territorial CAPITAL and its lack of basic globalized infrastructure and its extreme northernliness, so most people haven't even heard it mentioned since it was created. So if you happened to not be watching the news for that month in 1999, you wouldn't know that, and even if you were, no one can blame you for forgetting it and reverting to the answer that was drilled into your head in grade school for marks.
...but yes. On the whole, the average Canadian is as stupid as the average American. I just don't think that particular Canadian survey example is fair. It's just a liiiittle bit different from not knowing how many sides a triangle has.

edith

edith

France
April 2006

JUL 03, 2007 11:05 AM

i only read the first part of that whole thing.

i'm not sure how uncle ned on a cruise ship* has anything to do with reality.

have you ever come across pissed off germans while on vacation? those guys get mad.

it has more to do with the person and less to do with their country. i actually find americans to be friendlier, more understanding, open minded and forgiving than people from some other countries.

*most cruises don't count as real travel

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

JUL 03, 2007 11:20 AM

Necia said:

d20 said:
the key is that you have to know how to give'r.

i have american friends down here that still can't quite wrap their heads around givin'r, which i think is why they can't drink with canadians.



Wait, what?

Explain, please? Now I'm curious.



watch the movie Fubar. it explains the whole thing more than i ever could.



"Merlin was part of fuckin' King Henry's Court and he fuckin' won all the wars for him cause he cast spells... fuck you man that shit's real."

Omega_Blue

Omega_Blue

Antelope, CA
June 2007

JUL 03, 2007 12:08 PM

When I go to foreign countries, I wear a cowboy hat, a T-shirt with a picture of George W. Bush on it, and an American flag as a cape...LOL. Seriously, the best thing to do when travelling abroad is to try to learn some of the language of the nation in which you travel, and to act sensibly...

lynnailove

lynnailove

I'm lost
April 2005

JUL 03, 2007 01:14 PM

Domo_Kun said:

Sphinx said:
chapter three.
"How to drink Canadian Beer"

Good luck.



Elsinore?

The macro Canadian brews don't taste that much different from a decent American beer.

About as close to real Canadian beer as I've had is Moosehead.



lol.. what the heck is 'moosehead'? American beer is so watered down compared to canadian beer. Try some Keiths or Guiness. =P

Glassmachine

Glassmachine

United Kingdom
November 2004

JUL 03, 2007 01:58 PM

So I was in Chiang Mai on a jungle trek. In our group there are two English (me and my mate) two Norwegians a Japanese and an Israeli. In the other group is about five guys with Canadian patches on their bags.

We head out first, we're keeping as quiet as possible in the hope that we might see some wildlife. We are probably about half a mile ahead when the "canadians" start out behind us. We can hear them shouting and screaming as they kick trees and smash though the undergrowth. Then we hear them hitting each other, doing Bruce Lee impressions, apparently they found some bamboo cane or something and were whipping each other.

We get to a waterfall and they run and dive and in, whooping and shouting, generally giving everyone a headache.

I remember thinking 'Man, people give Americans a bad review, these Canadians are a nightmare!"

Later on a couple of the guys sit next to me. I decide to make conversation.

"So... you guys from Canada?"

They look at each other.

"Actually, we're from LA."

I don't judge people based upon where they're from. But I thought this was a funny story given the subject matter.

Domo_Kun

Domo_Kun

Rockford, IL
March 2005

JUL 03, 2007 03:03 PM

lynnailove said:

Domo_Kun said:

Sphinx said:
chapter three.
"How to drink Canadian Beer"

Good luck.



Elsinore?

The macro Canadian brews don't taste that much different from a decent American beer.

About as close to real Canadian beer as I've had is Moosehead.



lol.. what the heck is 'moosehead'? American beer is so watered down compared to canadian beer. Try some Keiths or Guiness. =P



I drink Guinness like it's water.

And, no, American beer isn't watered down. American macrobrews are. Try a Dogfish head 90 Minute IPA. 9% abv.

Anyhow, this is Moosehead. Brewed in Saint John. It's actually pretty good, if you get to it before it skunks. It's been my experience, though, that beer in green bottles skunks faster than beer in brown bottles.

Omega_Blue

Omega_Blue

Antelope, CA
June 2007

JUL 03, 2007 08:35 PM

Domo_Kun said:

lynnailove said:

Domo_Kun said:

Sphinx said:
chapter three.
"How to drink Canadian Beer"

Good luck.



Elsinore?

The macro Canadian brews don't taste that much different from a decent American beer.

About as close to real Canadian beer as I've had is Moosehead.



lol.. what the heck is 'moosehead'? American beer is so watered down compared to canadian beer. Try some Keiths or Guiness. =P



I drink Guinness like it's water.

And, no, American beer isn't watered down. American macrobrews are. Try a Dogfish head 90 Minute IPA. 9% abv.

Anyhow, this is Moosehead. Brewed in Saint John. It's actually pretty good, if you get to it before it skunks. It's been my experience, though, that beer in green bottles skunks faster than beer in brown bottles.



Domo_Kun

Domo_Kun

Rockford, IL
March 2005

JUL 04, 2007 08:02 AM

Omega_Blue said:

Domo_Kun said:

lynnailove said:

Domo_Kun said:

Sphinx said:
chapter three.
"How to drink Canadian Beer"

Good luck.



Elsinore?

The macro Canadian brews don't taste that much different from a decent American beer.

About as close to real Canadian beer as I've had is Moosehead.



lol.. what the heck is 'moosehead'? American beer is so watered down compared to canadian beer. Try some Keiths or Guiness. =P



I drink Guinness like it's water.

And, no, American beer isn't watered down. American macrobrews are. Try a Dogfish head 90 Minute IPA. 9% abv.

Anyhow, this is Moosehead. Brewed in Saint John. It's actually pretty good, if you get to it before it skunks. It's been my experience, though, that beer in green bottles skunks faster than beer in brown bottles.





That... is fucking awesome!

Lemonkid

Lemonkid

Canada
May 2003

JUL 05, 2007 01:20 PM

In Quebec the beer's 9% of pure deadly.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUL 05, 2007 05:45 PM

Meh. I vacationed in Germany four, maybe five times while my mom was working on a base over there and never had anyone react to us poorly because we were American. I mean, yeah, a few of the places we went were base towns and they've had plenty of time to get used to us, but we went all over. No issues.

Of course, we're polite and friendly, and my parents were learning German while they were over there (I picked up a few phrases, but not a lot more.). But really, if you're an asshole you're an asshole, your nationality's not going to make it worse.

ActiveAC

ActiveAC

I'm lost
July 2004

JUL 05, 2007 06:05 PM

With our involvement in Afghanistan (did you that 6 Canadians were killed this week in Kandahar?) and exploitive mining companies in Africa, our international rep is getting to be pretty much the same as Americans -- and we are all drinking Corona's these days, north and south of the US-Canada border.

So it may no longer be much help to fake being Canadian when you travel... eeek

Domo_Kun

Domo_Kun

Rockford, IL
March 2005

JUL 06, 2007 05:56 AM

ActiveAC said:
With our involvement in Afghanistan (did you that 6 Canadians were killed this week in Kandahar?) and exploitive mining companies in Africa, our international rep is getting to be pretty much the same as Americans -- and we are all drinking Corona's these days, north and south of the US-Canada border.

So it may no longer be much help to fake being Canadian when you travel... eeek



Then I'll start working on my Received Pronunciation...

teddy__kgb

teddy__kgb

Albuquerque, NM
February 2007

JUL 06, 2007 07:38 PM

malkav11 said:
Meh. I vacationed in Germany four, maybe five times while my mom was working on a base over there and never had anyone react to us poorly because we were American. I mean, yeah, a few of the places we went were base towns and they've had plenty of time to get used to us, but we went all over. No issues.

Of course, we're polite and friendly, and my parents were learning German while they were over there (I picked up a few phrases, but not a lot more.). But really, if you're an asshole you're an asshole, your nationality's not going to make it worse.



when i was in germany for a year,1989-90, only the radical leftists (so far left its the right) lambasted us military presence. the more liberal minded were 'anti-us imperialism'... ironic? i discoved a large anti-american sentiment everywhere in europe, but used it to my benefit on most occasions. i spoke fluent german at the time, and still got shit from germans for even being an exchange-student. it did lead to intersting arguments, but i often wondered how the same people would act if the roles were reversed. that said, many of these people went on to become my best buddies.

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