emotedcreations said:
He's trying to sell a product, and as much as I object to product presentation for purely capital's sake, well, this is America.

Wait, isn't your "this" Djibouti?

hor

USA

June 2005

JUN 27, 2007 12:13 AM

emotedcreations said:

MisterGraves said:
SG might be empowering if there were any sense of community left here. In my opinion that died somewhere in 2005.

I've only been around for a little more than a year. Well, pretty much exactly a year at this point, so I don't know what the hell the site was like in '03. I'm not sure if this is some SG elitism being expressed here, but I've made a lot of great friends on hear, and hope to stay in contact with them for as long as possible. I think the community here is great. In fact, it's one of the best communities on the net as far as I'm concerned.

In summation, I resent this comment.

Yes! Let's turn this into an SG love thread!! I'm down.

emotedcreations

Germany

July 2006

JUN 27, 2007 12:18 AM

RyleeStrange said:
Or maybe A Clockwork Orange, a movie that, while it talks about humanity and right versus wrong, contains TWO violent gang-rape scenes...

You're not seriously comparing Saw and other cheap Hollywood profit driven movies to A Clockwork Orage--are you?

lowroller

Australia

May 2008

JUN 27, 2007 12:36 AM

As long as the girls themselves are into it and aren't told to do it, I see no problem.

Just my little opinion.

tech29

I'm lost

July 2004

JUN 27, 2007 12:38 AM

Skywisdom said:

Tech29 said:
My post was more of a tounge and cheek dig at the sensationlism of most news wire posts on here and half the guys on here burning their bra's in an hysterical defence, get over it, we all are exploited to different dregree's in different ways in our lives. I personally believe women can be exploited more because
A) They choose to be in said statement of your built to be a hooker but most girls arent THE SAME AS MEN ... Some women choose to be sexually used, hell shit in my country Prostitution is LEGAL in every state.
B) Their own agenda be it attention or personal gratification they recieve in the case of going to a movie premier have dozens of guys drooling over you maybe humilating you or you them in return but being paid, the guys probably wont be.
In ending cryng about women who are exploited more because they choose to be is kinda stupid dont ya think.

You know, once I managed to dig through your convoluted grammar, lack of punctuation and spelling errors, I managed to find one worthwhile point: All people are exploited in different ways.
Your point was quickly destroyed when you wrote "get over it"
Right.
You heard him girls! Get over it. The milleniums of oppresion by the male sex? Violence against women going unpunished? The rampant objectification of your bodies?Yeah, all that: Get over it. Cause some of you think that the best way to make a living is by selling your body, that means the rest of you who don't feel that way should just get over it.

And I believe he said that for men too, so yeah.
Men:
Get over it! Everytime someone calls you a faggot because you don't enjoy sports. Everytime you are made fun of for the lack of sex you have. Every time advertising makes you feel impotent because your muscles are big enough, get over it. Everytime that the media glorifies violent men over sensitive men? Yeah...get over it.

Oh and Tech29?
Normally I avoid name-calling, because I feel it gets us no where. But, I have to say, (strictly for therapeutic reaons) that you are a complete moron. I would say more, but I'm afraid of getting my post removed for profanity; I'm not really sure how that works on here.

No I actualy stand by what I say sticks and stones my friend. Do get over it. Peoples action as apposed to their words are for a whole other thread.
As for me being a Moron ... Name calling and internet tough guys are fine with me. Your a weak cunt, See I can name call too .

Vidalia

SUICIDEGIRL

USA

JUN 27, 2007 12:49 AM

emotedcreations said:
(there are whole sites established in opposition to SG)

Whoa really? Who's in opposition to hot naked girls!?!

PS: It really is true! MIssy locks us all in a dark scary dungeon and makes all our decisions for us!

Matthew_O

Los Angeles, CA

December 2006

JUN 27, 2007 01:26 AM

VnlaThndr775 said:
This torture porn shit is played out. Bring back the gory-axe-murderer-killing-fornicating-teenage-couples genre!

GonzoChaote

Vancouver, BC

March 2007

JUN 27, 2007 01:28 AM

TedKoppel said:
The whole women in peril thing in horror has been hacky for quite a while now. I'm pretty bored with it. My problem with these torture movies is that they don't really make me feel afraid. I think, "Ew, that's gross" and then there's pretty much nothing left for me. Certainly that's how I felt about Ichi the Killer - that movie doesn't even, so far as I could tell, have any sort of subversive message going on in it. But so many horror movies seem to come down to some sexy woman running from a killer. It gets really old.

I must confess one exception to the rule: The Last House on the Left. While parts of that movie are really cheesy and weird, there's a rape/murder that absolutely destroys me. Because I found it to be emotional and upsetting, showing the actual violence of the act, not making it "sexy" or glorifying it, I was all the more disturbed and actually appreciated it for what it was.

GonzoChaote

Vancouver, BC

March 2007

JUN 27, 2007 01:35 AM

FearTheReaper said:
The idea of Hostel II turned my stomach much more than this piece of crap did. Women being captured for the purpose of torture and murder is rather sickening because it is an everyday occurance.

I thought the same of Captivity but when I saw the trailer I thought the movie looked like a kidnapping held in the road runner's ACME factory. A girl battles the world of gadgets (hey, wait, it's Wil's terrirory again! Yay!) And the "twist" is obvious. The dude who is trapped with her is obviously the kidnapper. Idiotic. And I hope that ruins the movie for anyone who wants to see it.

I'm not sure if either of these movies are cases of mysogeny, however, as much as they are of the total lack of morality in Hollywood, coupled with the desire to "top" the last guy. I love horror movies, I love the blood and guts, but these two have gone a bit too far.

But then, that, of course brings me back to why do I draw the line at girls being cut up and murdered and not guys, as was done in Hostel !? And the answer is simple. Because it happens so often. Green River Killer, the Hollwood Hills Stranglers, Ted Bundy, the Ipswich Killer, on and on.

The SGs can obviously make their own choices and do what they want. This, does seem to be an odd choice, considering the material and the publicity surrounding the previous billboards. It is a creepy line we are now crossing and we want those people we consider to be on "our" side to make the "right" choice. But not every person will see the movie the same way, and some women will not be offended at all.

And doesn't Wil just cover videos and board games?

I agree that the specific idea of misogynistic horror and the idea of exploiting the kidnapping and torture of women is grotesque, but I'd have to say that personally speaking- and I'd imagine from reading your thoughts so far you're probably in agreement on this- the idea of exploiting the kidnapping and torture of human life in general without some kind of overriding purpose, context, or thesis to justify it is crass and grotesque.

zaii

I'm lost

June 2007

JUN 27, 2007 01:42 AM

MisterGraves said:
SG might be empowering if there were any sense of community left here. In my opinion that died somewhere in 2005.

What was once a smaller community of very active members has become simply a site driven entirely by a struggle to maintain profits where unenthusiastic and mostly anonymous members go to look at naked pictures of pretty girls whose sets gain them nothing more than 1000 fucking "I Loved It"s.

There is no empowerment here, only a chance to have people see you naked. The sets with more interesting themes are rejected. The girls that don't meet what has become very close to mainstream standard of beauty are rejected. The suggestion that SG's time has come and past is rejected.

Stick a fork in it.

i realise this doesn't further the discussion much at all, but that really made me sad because i think it's true.. and i've only been a member for about a week.

tech29

I'm lost

July 2004

JUN 27, 2007 01:52 AM

Wow a 21 year old internet tough guy is going to cut my balls off BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I thought what I said was people's opinions on this movie and the genre as a whole were just opinions i.e. something to just get over.
How the hell did you move onto gentital mutilation. What the fuck are you on about son what thread are you suppopsed to be posting on. As for exploitation re read what I wrote if you cant understand, you have completly lost it. ( Hint it was about consent ) No one consents to sex trafficking.
As for my grammer and spelling I'm a self confessed poor and lazy typist and couldn't give a fuck what you or anyone else say about it.

Nimbusfool

Moscow, ID

August 2006

JUN 27, 2007 01:53 AM

I think this just pushes the time when the patricarchy dies out and the matricharcy comes into being and woe, woe to you who art a fucking pig.

GonzoChaote

Vancouver, BC

March 2007

JUN 27, 2007 01:59 AM

Rafi said:
More than a bit of a tangent, but it's interesting how much of a schism in thinking there is in many ways here about "torture porn" vs. "real porn." There seems to be a squeamishness about actual porn, meaning anything harder than SG and ranging from Hustler to Ron Jeremy to misogynist reality porn, to the point that some are very reluctant to attach the p-word in any way, shape or form to this website's content. It seems to me that the mindset is that "traditional" pornography generally shouldn't be discussed in the same breath as Suicide Girls because it fails the empowerment of women test.

Well I have to disagree based on the fact that how I define porn is the level of explicitness; to be pornography, it'd require graphic depictions of sexual intercourse. The idea of some kind of empowerment test to assign the definition of pornography is crass because of just how nebulous a quality that is. I'd be more concerned about distancing SG from Playboy for ideological purposes since pornography is simply a classification.

Bringing up the dichotomy between extreme violence and explicit sex is a rather good point though, and I strongly agree with assigning more importance on the idea of an empowerment test regarding violence, which is sorely lacking in most mediums.

For instance, a few years ago comic book writer Gail Simone started a website called "Women in the Refrigerator" that she used to track the level of violence that female comic book characters are submitted and remains a hot button issue throughout the industry to this day. It's definitely something that gets too easily overlooked.

SomethingStupid

North Hollywood, CA

March 2004

JUN 27, 2007 02:01 AM

Hello. I am a shitbag misogynist looking to exploit SuicideGirls. Can you all direct me to my thread?

GonzoChaote

Vancouver, BC

March 2007

JUN 27, 2007 02:14 AM

RyleeStrange said:

i'm not sure how this movie would "glorify" abuse to women...it's not saying "go abuse women". it's just a plot based around a woman who is abused and tortured...

are you going to say the same of "Cannibal Holocaust" cause there's a graphic rape scene?

or Saw II because there's a woman caught in there with the men?

Or maybe A Clockwork Orange, a movie that, while it talks about humanity and right versus wrong, contains TWO violent gang-rape scenes...

If you go to IMDB you will see that in Captivity, there are two main characters: a woman AND A MAN. so why aren't you complaining about the glorification of abuse towards men? Or is that too misogynistic, too?

I have no problem believing that this guy may be attempting to exploit the models on SG--especially by not checking with the site first and making it look like the girls are hookers for hire. But i really think you're all overreacting a bit....no...a LOT

First, there's a word in the English language "context." That's what seperates the context of a movie like Captivity from your other examples.

Second, it's been clearly established that the man in there with her is the perpetrator himself.

emotedcreations

Germany

July 2006

JUN 27, 2007 02:17 AM

zaii said:
i realise this doesn't further the discussion much at all, but that really made me sad because i think it's true.. and i've only been a member for about a week.

So you're basing this opinion on what? A week's worth of membership? Congrats---your opinion is meaningless. G'day.

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUN 27, 2007 02:25 AM

GonzoChaote said:
Well I have to disagree based on the fact that how I define porn is the level of explicitness; to be pornography, it'd require graphic depictions of sexual intercourse.

So explicit masturbation is not porn? (By your definition it cannot be.)

So solo dildo/vibrator use is not porn? (By your definition it cannot be.)

So oral sex imagery is not porn? (By your definition it cannot be.)

handsome_rob

Burlington, IA

May 2004

JUN 27, 2007 04:26 AM

well, ihaven't read all ten pages of comments, but it seems to me that this loser is trying to use sg as a shock tactic for his own movie's promotion, and i would personally think that sg would be above this, in trying to remain tasteful and discrete as it has, being a members only site, and removing content that the u.s. government would consider "obscene."

however, as for the use of SGs on date scenarios, i think that's a bit more than out of line, and while, yes, a suicidegirl may have crazy adventures during a "night on the town," as missy puts it, using such a scenario puts not only the girl a risk of the danger of spending a job-related evening with a "winner" (read: client), but sg as a whole for promoting the essential escort service usage of its models.

i, for one, don't get esscort service as a paid member for several years (not that i think i should, but you get my drift), and neither should some skanky "winner" of some sleazy, cheesy, poorly made horror film's promotional contest, either.

maybe i'm completely wrong here, but it seems to me that suicidegirls as a whole should avoid this douchebag and his horrible "film" like the fucking plague.

handsome_rob

Burlington, IA

May 2004

JUN 27, 2007 04:31 AM

afterthought:

besdides the article not mentioning anything about this, what the hell do tattooed punk rock, gothy-girls have to do with shitty, torture-based b-movies anyway? seriously. are all the victims rockabilly pin-ups or something?

this just sounds terrible from start to finish.

god, but i'm pretty sure i don't pay like 48 bucks a year to have this site whored out for the promotion of a terrible genre of "movies" like that. ugh.

spamtwo

United Kingdom

April 2006

JUN 27, 2007 04:55 AM

I paid for this

Cash

USA

OLD SKOOL

JUN 27, 2007 05:20 AM

WilWheaton said:
Suicide Girls is about empowering women, and I don't see how participating in the promotion of a film that glorifies and glamorizes and celebrates violence against women is consistent with that.

This is just my opinion...but it sounds like you believe that the words "empowering" and "protecting" are synonymous.

Nic

SUICIDEGIRL

United Kingdom

JUN 27, 2007 05:45 AM

I'm gonna toss my two pence in here for what it's worth.

Basically, I agree with Roethke, Wil and FearTheReaper.

Although the idea of seeing Kim Bauer buried in an aquarium full of cat litter greatly appeals to me, I do find Hollywood's recent fascination with horrific torture movies greatly disturbing and it saddens me that SG has chosen to associate itself with Captivity. Whilst Missy correctly and succinctly points out that Suicide Girls are not being forced to go along to this event (and I bet there are several girls who are probably really looking forward to it and will probably enjoy the movie), I do think that from looking at the NY Times article that this Solomon guy is a complete and total douche and I would not piss on him if he was on fire:

"The women's groups definitely will love it," Mr. Solomon hinted. "I call it my personal little tribute to them."

This guy seems to relish the fact that organizations whose chief interests involve raising awareness of violence against women and trying to end it are going to find his movie and the events at the launch party offensive and distasteful. I am fully aware that there are a lot of feminists and women's rights campaigners who are humorless tards who would scream sexism if a guy held a door open for them, but being gleeful about pissing off a group of people who only want 50% of the population to live in a safety, is a bit of a warning sign to me that Solomon is a fucking cunt of the highest order.

I also found the billboard campaign for this movie completely distasteful, insensitive and upsetting. Like many women I know what it feels like to be afraid that you're about to be raped and killed. Its not nice.

I am a great fan of the horror genre. I read and watch a great deal of it and I love horror games like Silent Hill. I have written several short horror stories which have involved torture, rape and murder in graphic detail. I've played roleplay characters that have been brutally murdered by serial killers. The reason that I love horror so much is that it gives us a great oppertunity to ask and perhaps answer all sorts of questions about our own nature, fear, compulsions and desires. However, from its trailer, the reviews I have read and the comments made on this thread, I seriously doubt that Captivity explores anything beyond a somewhat revolting trend in which people pay to go and see a movie with a piss weak plot in order to see an attractive young woman subjected to torture. And the torture is "sexed up"- the kidnappers force her to wear kinky clothes or else they strap her down and forcefeed her blended up eyeballs and testicles.

I know that the woman-in-peril plotline is as old as the hills and has been around in cinema since the first curly-moustached villain tied a damsel to a traintrack, and that kidnap, bondage and torture are all recognised and accepted fetishes (interestingly, I saw [Manko]'s last set just before I read this thread). But what I want to know is why people want to see this movie? Why was it made (other than $$$$)? The only conclusion I can draw is that people really enjoy watching attractive young people helpless and in pain. And hey, in this case its Elisha Cutherbert, so I can understand that . But yeah, "Not for me." I find it morally bankrupt, tasteless, and very sad.

groove

Chicago, IL

OLD SKOOL

JUN 27, 2007 06:05 AM

Morgan said:
I'm already depressed enough that the director of Captivity went from making something like "The Killing Fields" to making yet another stupid torture porn fiick.

I blame Super Mario Bros.

bakshian

Nashua, NH

April 2003

JUN 27, 2007 06:30 AM

emotedcreations said:
I'm not personally into such things (at all--I just don't get the appeal), but I'm all about choice. They get to choose to participate in whatever events they like. If they make a poor choice (and I'm not saying this is), that's on their heads, their conscience, and their souls--they're the ones who will have to live with it.

As to this dude possibly misrepresenting SG, meh, it happens every day (there are whole sites established in opposition to SG). He's trying to sell a product, and as much as I object to product presentation for purely capital's sake, well, this is America. The power is with a well informed consumer, so in that regard I have to applaud Wil for keeping us all informed consumers. Good article all around.

I thought we were all owning up to the idea that the word "choice" can't be the end of discussion on any detail of human affairs, that the more we look at the influences and systems into which we're born, the less important that magical "choosing" becomes. At the very least, it can't be used as a punctuation on any debate. I think Wil would agree that if a girl chooses to participate in this event, it is not merely or finally her inner personal "choice", but at least to some degree the control of the institutions within which she lives.

All_Sewn_Up

Papua New Guinea

January 2007

JUN 27, 2007 06:33 AM

StarBelliedBoy said:

Unmonk said:
Shitbag Misogynist Plans to Exploit SuicideGirls, while they exploit him right back.

"Who's more the fool, the fool, or the fool that follows him?" - Ben Kenobi

I.... can't believe I just read that.

Really, dude? Really?

I think what he's getting at is the fact that the Shitbag Misogynist that Wil's rallying against is getting free publicity because of it. In just over 12 hours this thread has hit 10* pages, all of which are about his movie. Sure, most are trashing it but I guarantee a few people will see go see it because of this. Hence the "exploiting him right back."

But having Obi Wan call him a fool is a bit harsh, though.

* Make that 11

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June 2005

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JUN 27, 2007 12:36 AM

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JUN 27, 2007 12:49 AM

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