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mingol

mingol

Singapore
July 2005

JUN 23, 2007 05:53 AM

TheFuckOffKid said:

Rape is not a crime of sex. Rape is a crime of violence. Power, control, and domination are the hallmarks of rape.


I've heard this for as long as I can remember, and to this day I do not understand the either/or.

Rape is clearly a crime of violence. Power, control, and domination are clearly the hallmarks of rape. But so are erections. How is it also not simultaneously a crime of sex?

I never get this. As if it has to be one OR the other, and cannot possibly be both.



Agreed. One of the best definitions I've heard is that rape is "a crime of violence, in which sex is the weapon."

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

JUN 23, 2007 08:56 AM

StarBelliedBoy said:

bald_eagle said:
The story doesn't mention whether the D.A. filed an interlocutory appeal. Given the judge's wide discretion, it would have been iffy.

I doubt if the hung jury can be completely blamed on the prohibition. Juries seem to have trouble convicting scumbags who take advantage of women who pass out. And the victim's lack of memory didn't help, I'm sure.



That is EXACTLY what happened in my trial. Basically, most of the jury tended to think "they agreed to go out with him and got drunk and passed out, they probably wanted to have sex with him anyway." Out of 36 charges brought down on the guy by 7 different women, all I could get was two measly counts of sexual assault. None of the jurors could understand why they didn't call the police immediately nor went to a hospital. Because that rarely happens with date-rape. That all could have been explained if they could've brought in a psychologist or a rape counselor, but our state laws prohibit that kind of witness in this specific type of trial.



You mean, a lot of people hear "rape" and they think "stranger attack in a dark alleyway," and thus they don't think that a date-rape victim's story or actions fit with their idea of what a "true rape victim" would do--meaning someone who was attacked by a stranger in a dark alleyway? Because you're right: the reactions and behaviors and thought patterns of victims in the two types of situations do tend to be different. No one should feel at fault for being grabbed off the street and raped--and I don't think most people would feel at fault for that. It's random. No one should feel at fault for going out with someone, having some drinks maybe, having a good time, but then being taken advantage of and raped--but people often do feel at fault for that, or at least feel confused about how it happened or less confident that their story will be believed if they tell it, and they tend to act differently afterward because of that. If the attacker is someone with whom they had some rapport or relationship, it complicates the reaction even further. Jurors who have the mindset that a rape victim would respond in a clear, pre-conceived way that's similar or equal to the way that a stranger-rape victim would more often respond could definitely be prone to disbelieving a date-rape victim because he or she did not respond that same way.

That's what I got out of it. I'm a little perturbed that so many people are blowing their tops over what you said--unless I'm misunderstanding you, of course.

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

JUN 23, 2007 09:04 AM

thyrsus962 said:
Nebraska, a farm state



You know, I stopped caring about the point you were making right there. And in a post that was assumedly dealing with mistaken preconceptions! Huh. whatever

Admiral_Pants

Admiral_Pants

Austin, TX
May 2004

JUN 23, 2007 09:06 AM

Do people really have to play the "I hate rape the most" game every time the subject comes up?

StarBelliedBoy

StarBelliedBoy

Philadelphia, PA
December 2003

JUN 23, 2007 09:13 AM

Necia said:
I'm a little perturbed that so many people are blowing their tops over what you said--unless I'm misunderstanding you, of course.



People get upset because there are a lot of people that can't think rationally when they hear the word rape. They immediately cast off logic and get into mob vengeance mode. This is why I think it's not such a ridiculous idea to keep the word out of the courtroom.

Really, I think it should be replaced with sexual assault, which pretty much means the same exact thing, without being bogged down in emotion.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

JUN 23, 2007 10:14 AM

If it means anything, I do know now that I misunderstood StarBelliedBoy's point, and apologize. I get what you were saying now.

Memphis_Rai

Memphis_Rai

USA
August 2006

JUL 04, 2007 09:46 PM

StarBelliedBoy said:

Necia said:
I'm a little perturbed that so many people are blowing their tops over what you said--unless I'm misunderstanding you, of course.



People get upset because there are a lot of people that can't think rationally when they hear the word rape. They immediately cast off logic and get into mob vengeance mode. This is why I think it's not such a ridiculous idea to keep the word out of the courtroom.

Really, I think it should be replaced with sexual assault, which pretty much means the same exact thing, without being bogged down in emotion.



http://www.slate.com/id/2168758/nav/tap2/

"Cheuvront granted a motion by defense attorneys barring the use of the words rape, sexual assault, victim, assailant, and sexual assault kit from the trial of Pamir Safi%u2014accused of raping Tory Bowen in October 2004."

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