NEWS: Not so Lucky to be Irish

You, personally? How would I know? I haven't a clue about you. The folks the article's about? Apparently so, yes.

oh so because they disagree with your viewpoint they can't possibly be understanding it?

and, if the picture is for their benefit... did you send them a link?

They clearly don't understand that women are autonomous human beings, no.

And no, I did not send them a link. But publication is a form of public speech, and I usually construct my posts with that in mind. If X doesn't appeal/apply to you, then that's cool; but it's kind of silly to expect that everything you read will, isn't it?

Posting a picture of a dead baby(that they will never will never see) will CLEARLY make them understand that womyn are autonomous human beings? Most people aren't even asking you to remove it. Just spoiler it or warn us at least. Please!

No, it probably won't.

Look, there's a rhetorical point being made by the picture. The content of the *article* is more offensive than the picture. But by and large people are willing to talk about things like restricting abortion rights "rationally" and "calmly," while getting all upset about pictures of, say, hydrocephalic fetuses or dead women. It's a warped set of priorities, and I think that point is worth making.

um , no.

Try to have a little respect for community. People here will , for the most part, talk rationally and calmly about anything, but you are suprised at backlash when you shove dead babies in peoples faces ?
I'm pretty sure I've heard you speak out against such tactics from the pro-life camp. Why would you feel it's acceptable tactic for you to make your point ?

Not that it makes any point at all, rhetorical or otherwise. Other than you have a problem.
oh and also you need a dictonary because rhetorical points aren't usually made with pictures.

No, I'm not really surprised. I'm just hoping that some people will think about the difference between being offended by a picture and being offended by injustice.

My biggest problem with pro-life use of "aborted fetus" pictures is that most of the ones you see (including the image here) are of fetuses very late in gestation--a lot are miscarriages or early stillbirths, rather than actual abortions. Those pics are dishonest. This is, in fact, a pic of an anencephalitic fetus.

In any case, I'm sorry that I posted a picture that upset you.

I see your point I really do. Yes the thing is the picture is not enlightening you point. It is counter-acting your point. It would be a lot easier to focus on your point if it wasn't for the shock value. This picture is not getting anyone closer to your point. It is counter-productive. If you had read the posts(which I'm sure you have) you would see that the people posting here agree with your *article*. I don't need to see pictures of dead babies or of dead womyn to know that the means that people go through to have an abortion when they are not accessable safely or legally are horrid. The pictures do not enhance that awareness. It's not like the videos say that PETA will show you of what really happens in slaughterhouses because you may not know. I don't have to see a hydrocephalic fetus looks like, because in my mind it was awful enough for everyone involved(ie..mother,boyfriend,humyms). No one seeing that picture will become more aware of the autonomy of womyn because of seeing it. It takes disscussion and self realization. The picture is taking away from that knowledge which you are trying to share.

in the majority of cases, im completely against abortion...there are thousands of people, in the US alone, who want to adopt a newborn...and since the wait list on newborns is so long, some people never get one...why kill a healthy baby that someone would love? but in this case...if theres absolutely no chance of the baby living more than a few days...that would just cause the girl more stress and pain...i know i wouldnt want to have a child just for her to die 2-3 days after he/she was born...it would be heart breaking...and i better than the suffering the poor baby would endure having to live for that short time..i dont think it would be easy on the child...and deff. not easy on the mother. i think ireland seriously needs to work there laws to fit in special circumstances...like this one.

i'm not demanding everything you post apply to me, or expecting it. i am hoping you'll grasp the difference between being autonomous and being alone though. you can think what you want, but when you stop respecting people around you when you act those people will stop respecting you.

P.S. my handy apple dictionary defines autonomous as "acting independently or having the freedom to do so" so, in this case, women aren't autonomous

P.P.S. you show how hideously your bias is by saying "women are autonomous human beings" instead of "human beings are autonomous." believe it or not there are women in the pro-life camp too. abortion laws aren't just made by mean old men trying to think for the simple minded women.

"Lastly, please refrain from posting things with the sole intent of shocking other members." - lil tuffy

Yes but unless you forgot, almostfamous, we are talking about women's rights to have control over THEIR bodies that can grow babies, flawed or otherwise. no one is talking abt the demographics that comprise the anti-choice vs. pro-choice groups...

It is about can we or can we not control what happens inside? As a mother of 4, I nominate pregnancy as a most selfless and martyrish act, and I think when people sit around talking abt how women can simply give their babies up for adoption, they are ignoring the enormous costs that the women must pay, economically and emotionally.

And sorry, i think the picture is a necessary tool to drive home the point of the sadism behind making the woman carry this poor fetus to term~! and YES, i hate gore, and YES, i have had some very tragic human experiences myself...

The court ruled that she could travel and have an abortion.

Thanks for the update. Yeah for the Green Isle.

I've seen the protesters outside of Planned Parenthood with similar pictures and at that time I thought it was disgusting, and it's just as disgusting now. I pity the conservative who would post a picture like that as an anti-abortion protest in one of the many debates that happen on this site. Even Mucci never went that far.

Why cheer them? Cheer if they finally see sense and drag their antiquated abortion laws in to the 21st century

Because they made the right decision in this case(not in everycase). I guess I should have booed them eh(logical)? When a dog does something right you reward them right away to encourage that behavior. You don't wait until they get everything right before you reward them.

the judge made the right decision, not the government so it's the judge who should be applauded for having some common sense (which is rare for a judge) not the country

Thanks for the semantics lesson. Here's your edit yeah for Green Isle(judge).

You know what? Fuck you.

How dare we stick to our laws? How dare we consider the life of the unborn as required by our constitution. How dare we contradict the opinon of people who don't live here. How dare we have a full legal hearing of all the issues regarding this case. How dare we seek clarification on the legal requirements of our (free) Health Service with regards to underage girls. How dare we seek clarification on the rights of the mother and the rights of a child in such a case.
How dare we work things out in a manner that isn't completly one sided and of complete satisfaction with your way of proceeding.

The next time Ireland has a constitutional crises I will be sure to call you and Bitch_PhD right away to tell us how to think.

It's not entirely the government's fault. They've tried to change this law in the past (one instance, in lieu of the 'X' case, brought about the downfall of the ruling government party) but to change the law on abortion here there has to be a referendum where the voting public decide with a simple 'yes' or 'no' ballot. All because abortion is expressly mentioned in the constitution as being an illegal act (the hardline Catholic views of our nation's founders fairly blatant there...)

The issue was raised by lobbyists a few years back and in 2002 a referendum was held. The result was that 50.42% voted 'no', with a turnout of 42.89% of citizens registered to vote (which, when taking into consideration the size of the population, meant a narrow 10,000 vote defeat for the 'Yes' campaign).

If this referendum will be held again in the future, as I'm sure it will be, then I can see the 'Yes' campaigners being victorious. Ireland is shedding off the last remnants of the Catholic church's influence in politics and society in general. There has also been an increase in the number of younger voters in recent times, which would no doubt also help the case.

At the time I had written a pointed reply to this post, but the evil internet pixes prevented it's posting.


First off...if you have to ask why posting a picture of a dead baby is wrong or upsetting...then you are one fucked up person.
People don't care if it's an aborted fetus, a baby that died of natural causes or a genetic condition.
It.
Is.
Still.
A.
Picture.
Of.
A.
Dead.
Baby.

Shocking pictures and extremist rants that don't delve into the depth of the case are always to be considered with deep reserve and scepicism.
I despise those "pro-life" who "protest" with banners and plaquards with pictures of dead babies.
I also despise pro-choice people who do the same to get their point across.


Perhaps the next time someone posts and article on suicide you can include the photo of someone who's hung themselves...or blown their own head off.

No? Why not? Because that would be offensive and distasteful?
Of course it would.

Then why is it ok for you?

Let me spell it out for you:

This is an international issue of health care and civil rights we are talking about.

This is less about your government, and more about the right for a women, her family, and her medical professionals, to decide what to do with her own life and the life her own body is supporting.

DO you have a uterus? are you her husband? are you her doctor?

"we" are not "outsiders" looking in. perhaps indeed, that is your role.

That picture made me want to eat.

I'm going to McDonalds. For the first time in months. Anyone else want anything while I'm out?

EXACTLY.