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March Tournament. . . Of Books!

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PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

FEB 29, 2008 07:56 AM

AngelDevoid said:

obd said:
^^you are the only one.

Tree of Smoke, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao, and The Savage Detectives are on the way. Now I just need to finish Vineland and Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage before they get here.



This is a REAL spoiler, so please don't click unless you have read The Road.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
So a man and a woman never introduced or foreshadowed that rescue and shelter the boy, rending moot the worry that the father had for his son is not deus ex machina to you?
The last speech of the father in which he proclaims his son's luck does not either:
1) leave you betrayed at an insincere narrator, or
2) leave you betrayed at an insincere author...

after you have wiped the tears from your eyes of course. The actions of the father work against any belief in the ability of his son to survive without him. If this was the plan of either the narrator or the author, there were ways to foreshadow it. To make it believable by either laying the groundwork for the father's belief, that he already believes, or show outward "effects" of it to allow for a late or deathbed belief.

Finally, I love the choice of letting the son not have to directly disprove him (about being unable to fend for himself), but we also didn't get to hear the father's inner argument against killing the son. It just happened after the fact (after the father was incapacitated).

The style of the book was great. The emotion was powerful. The last few pages were disappointing. I didn't think deus ex machina was the only solution for the son. I didn't expect it from this author and it if it was out of place in any world, it was out of place in a world where people eat each other rather than help each other. That just further pushed it towards the unbelievable.

It could have been believable. It just needed more pages, before and after to work on it.

IMHO.


Not to turn this into a The Road debate, but I think there is a difference between something being "tacked on" and a "Deus ex Machina." I don't think there is anyway the ending is the former, and I take issue with calling what happens the latter.

These are spoilers.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
For one, there is certainly a hint that there might be other "good people" on the Road. The son asks it several times. Asks of others "will they carry the fire too?" The fact that the father has held out hope against hopelessness gives a small sign that others might do the same. He also makes a fundamental choice when he chooses not to kill his son when he gets sick, and that choice (to some extent) is rewarded. The father doesn't ever believe that the son could live without him. He also realizes that he can not kill his son--even if thats what a non-existant God demands of him.

Which brings me to the last pointt: I don't think that a Deus Ex Machina, if that's what it is, can be entirely unexpected in a story about a Father and a Son (or in one where they meet a man named Eli on the Road). There is definitely a biblical, parable-like element to the book.

Bill_the_Cat

Bill_the_Cat

Vanier, ON
May 2005

FEB 29, 2008 09:37 AM

PointBlank said:
And its back in 2008!!

Nominees
Run by Ann Patchett
On Chesil Beach by Ian McEwan
Tree of Smoke by Denis Johnson
Then We Came to the End by Joshua Ferris
Petropolis by Anya Ulinich
Ovenman by Jeff Parker
The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Díaz
You Don't Love Me Yet by Jonathan Lethem
New England White by Stephen L. Carter
Remainder by Tom McCarthy
The Shadow Catcher by Marianne Wiggins
The Savage Detectives by Roberto Bolaño
Let the Northern Lights Erase Your Name by Vendela Vida
Shining at the Bottom of the Sea by Stephen Marche
What the Dead Know by Laura Lippman
An Arsonist's Guide to Writers' Homes in New England by Brock Clarke

I'm picking Junot Diaz and Denis Johnson as the frontrunners.

Last three winners: David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, Ali Smith's The Accidental, and Cormac McCarthy's The Road

Link here
I'm sure all the readers here will be psyched! Both of them!!



I read a lot, but none of those books.
When Terry Pratchet or Steven Erickson are in the running I might get interested. tongue

AngelDevoid

AngelDevoid

USA
January 2008

FEB 29, 2008 11:56 AM

PointBlank said:

AngelDevoid said:

obd said:
^^you are the only one.

Tree of Smoke, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao, and The Savage Detectives are on the way. Now I just need to finish Vineland and Supplement to Bougainville's Voyage before they get here.



This is a REAL spoiler, so please don't click unless you have read The Road.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
So a man and a woman never introduced or foreshadowed that rescue and shelter the boy, rending moot the worry that the father had for his son is not deus ex machina to you?
The last speech of the father in which he proclaims his son's luck does not either:
1) leave you betrayed at an insincere narrator, or
2) leave you betrayed at an insincere author...

after you have wiped the tears from your eyes of course. The actions of the father work against any belief in the ability of his son to survive without him. If this was the plan of either the narrator or the author, there were ways to foreshadow it. To make it believable by either laying the groundwork for the father's belief, that he already believes, or show outward "effects" of it to allow for a late or deathbed belief.

Finally, I love the choice of letting the son not have to directly disprove him (about being unable to fend for himself), but we also didn't get to hear the father's inner argument against killing the son. It just happened after the fact (after the father was incapacitated).

The style of the book was great. The emotion was powerful. The last few pages were disappointing. I didn't think deus ex machina was the only solution for the son. I didn't expect it from this author and it if it was out of place in any world, it was out of place in a world where people eat each other rather than help each other. That just further pushed it towards the unbelievable.

It could have been believable. It just needed more pages, before and after to work on it.

IMHO.


Not to turn this into a The Road debate, but I think there is a difference between something being "tacked on" and a "Deus ex Machina." I don't think there is anyway the ending is the former, and I take issue with calling what happens the latter.

These are spoilers.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
For one, there is certainly a hint that there might be other "good people" on the Road. The son asks it several times. Asks of others "will they carry the fire too?" The fact that the father has held out hope against hopelessness gives a small sign that others might do the same. He also makes a fundamental choice when he chooses not to kill his son when he gets sick, and that choice (to some extent) is rewarded. The father doesn't ever believe that the son could live without him. He also realizes that he can not kill his son--even if thats what a non-existant God demands of him.

Which brings me to the last pointt: I don't think that a Deus Ex Machina, if that's what it is, can be entirely unexpected in a story about a Father and a Son (or in one where they meet a man named Eli on the Road). There is definitely a biblical, parable-like element to the book.



SPOILERS! (Click to view)
Rereading the ending, I think I had always expected good people to help them, or just the son. But in this case the people came from behind them instead of ahead of them. I think I may misinterpreted a part of this following statement:

Look, he said. You got two choices here. There was some discussion about whether to even come after you at all. You can stay here with your papa and die or you can go with me. If you stay you need to keep off the road. I don't know how you made it this far. But you should go with me. You'll be all right.



I thought he was speaking of the recent past as he was following them, but it seems now he was speaking of them in general to get to this area. I faulted this man for letting the father die not knowing his son would be safe and possibly for letting the father die before approaching the son.

On the reread it is obvious he was three days behind them. I had shrunk the time the son spent alone on the first read. Also, like you were saying, it fits the bible or religious parable because the father had faith and it was rewarded. He did bring his son to safety. Directly to it. If he had died elsewhere, he would still have had a hard time killing his son. The part he could control was the place and immediate danger.

I still liked The Road on the first read. The better the author, the more I think I expect of them. It was my own reading that left me with one impression the first time (probably in a rush through tears to see if the son would be ok to be quite honest) and a different one the second time.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 31, 2008 07:54 AM

PointBlank said:
I'm picking Junot Diaz and Denis Johnson as the frontrunners.

Last three winners: David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, Ali Smith's The Accidental, and Cormac McCarthy's The Road

Link here
I'm sure all the readers here will be psyched! Both of them!!


...and Junot Diaz wins!! Beats out the surprising runner-up, Remainder.

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

MAR 31, 2008 09:38 AM

I'm voting for The Iliad.

Nixon

Nixon

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

MAR 31, 2008 10:31 AM

At least this thread gives me a shopping list.

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

MAR 31, 2008 11:54 AM

Cigarette said:
I'm voting for The Iliad.

No. Go for the Landnamabok.

Flux

Flux

SUICIDEGIRL

Georgia, USA

MAR 31, 2008 12:38 PM

PointBlank said:

PointBlank said:
I'm picking Junot Diaz and Denis Johnson as the frontrunners.

Last three winners: David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, Ali Smith's The Accidental, and Cormac McCarthy's The Road

Link here
I'm sure all the readers here will be psyched! Both of them!!


...and Junot Diaz wins!! Beats out the surprising runner-up, Remainder.



Dude, I made it two years running. We should start putting money on this shit.

Cash

Cash

USA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 31, 2008 01:06 PM

Any association with Oprah's Book Club renders your book automatically unreadable to me. There could be a book called "Cash...if you read this book you will have money, power, fame & women...you just have to read this book" on Oprah's Book Club list...I STILL wouldn't read it.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 10, 2009 09:07 AM


....and it's baaaaack!!

this year's nominees:


The White Tiger, Aravind Adiga
2666, Roberto Bolano
A Partisan’s Daughter, Louis de Bernieres
The Northern Clemency, Philip Hensher
The Lazarus Project, Aleksandar Hemon
My Revolutions, Hari Kunzru
Unaccustomed Earth, Jhumpa Lahiri
The Disreputable History of Frankie Landau-Banks, E. Lockhart
Shadow Country, Peter Matthiessen
The Dart League King, Keith Lee Morris
A Mercy, Toni Morrison
Steer Towards Rock, Fae Myenne Ng
Netherland, Joseph O’Neill
City of Refuge, Tom Piazza
Home, Marilynne Robinson
Harry, Revised, Mark Sarvas



My guesses would be: 2666, Netherland or Home.

First two matches are complete:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
1) 2666 defeated Steer Towards Rock
2) Netherland was stunningly upset by A Partisan's Daughter! but it should be back in the Zombie Round, I'm predicting.



And, as always Powells is offering a 30% discount on ALL the titles involved. Buy books, people!

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

MAR 10, 2009 04:12 PM

I just picked up "A Partisan's Daughter". Looked good when I flipped through it.

obd

obd

Venice, CA
June 2003

MAR 10, 2009 07:04 PM

There are some interesting looking books on the list. I've not heard of several. 2666 is the only book on the list that I've read. It was absolutely amazing.

piggybankcowboy

piggybankcowboy

Macomb, MI
February 2009

MAR 11, 2009 04:14 PM

Nixon said:
At least this thread gives me a shopping list.




It did the same for me, but I think I'm bumping 2666 to the top of the list.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 11, 2009 08:48 PM

piggybankcowboy said:

Nixon said:
At least this thread gives me a shopping list.




It did the same for me, but I think I'm bumping 2666 to the top of the list.



Good idea. I'd recommend starting with The Savage Detectives, to see if you like Bolano. 2666 is great, but it's huge and not for everyone.

Another Round One upset today! :
Mark Sarvas' Harry, Interrupted beat out Aravinda Adiga's Booker Prize winning The White Tiger

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 18, 2009 08:45 AM

Round one over:

2666 vs. Steer Toward Rock
Netherland vs. The Partisan's Daughter
The White Tiger vs. Harry, Revised
Unaccustomed Earth vs. City of Refuge
Shadow Country vs. The Disreputable History of Frankie Landau-Banks
The Northern Clemency vs. The Lazarus Project
Mercy vs. The Dart League King
Home vs. My Revolutions

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

MAR 18, 2009 08:52 AM

I'm actually pretty surprised that both The Partisan's Daughter and Shadow Country made it through.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

MAR 18, 2009 08:54 AM

DhD_No_Pants said:
I'm actually pretty surprised that both The Partisan's Daughter and Shadow Country made it through.



Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with The Partisan's Daughter.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 18, 2009 09:00 AM

Coyotemike said:

DhD_No_Pants said:
I'm actually pretty surprised that both The Partisan's Daughter and Shadow Country made it through.



Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with The Partisan's Daughter.


And oddly, Netherland might have been the best reviewed book of the year. I'm guessing that it will come back in the "zombie" round.

(but each contest is judged by a different reviewer, so it's just one person's opinion, really)

Here's the homepage again.

LimoWreck

LimoWreck

I'm lost
October 2007

MAR 19, 2009 09:51 AM

PointBlank said:
Round one over:

2666 vs. Steer Toward Rock
Netherland vs. The Partisan's Daughter
The White Tiger vs. Harry, Revised
Unaccustomed Earth vs. City of Refuge
Shadow Country vs. The Disreputable History of Frankie Landau-Banks
The Northern Clemency vs. The Lazarus Project
Mercy vs. The Dart League King
Home vs. My Revolutions



I'm happy to see 2666 beat out The Partisan's Daughter. To be honest, I'm surprised The Partisan's Daughter even made it past the first round.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 26, 2009 08:49 AM

ROUND TWO:

2666 VS The Partisan's Daughter
Harry, Revised VS City of Refuge
Shadow Country VS The Lazarus Project
A Mercy VS My Revolutions

ROUND THREE
2666 VS City of Refuge
Shadow Country VS A Mercy

Next up: Zombie Round---The two books with the most votes come back against the two remaining books:
2666 VS. A Mercy
The Disreputable Life of Frankie Landau-Banks VS City of Refuge

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 30, 2009 06:36 AM

FINALS Tomorrow:

A Mercy Vs. City of Refuge

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 09, 2010 12:46 PM

Once again!

This year, round one:
Let the Great World Spin - Colum McCann v.
Miles From Nowhere - Mani Num

Lowboy - John Wray
The Help - Kathryn Stockett

The Lacuna - Barbara Kingsolver v
Fever Chart - Bill Cotter

Burnt Shadows - Kamila Shamsie
That Old Cape Magic - Richard Russo

Wolf Hall - Hilary Mantel
An Epic Search For Truth - Apolious Doxiadis

Everyting Ravaged, Everything Burned - Wells Tower
The Anthologist - Nicholson Baker

A Gate at the Stairs - Lorie Moore
The Book of Night Women - Marlon James

Big Machine - Victor LaValle
The Year of the Flood - Margaret Atwood

As always, the great Powells bookstore is discounting all the titles. The few that I've read (Lowboy, Everything Ravaged, Wolf Hall) are all great.

Argene

Argene

Pittsburgh, PA
June 2004

MAR 09, 2010 06:56 PM

And...McCann wins.

I've read Everything Ravaged and most of Let the Great World Spin. I've been meaning to get to Wolf Hall, it and The Year of the Flood are on my to read list (although for TYotF I probably need to read Oryx and Crake first). Hopefully, I'll have enough time to do the LaValle/Atwood pairing.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 10, 2010 07:09 AM

Let the great World Spin D.
Miles From Nowhere

and today:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

The Help D.
Lowboy

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 11, 2010 09:32 AM


Let the great World Spin D.
Miles From Nowhere

The Help D.
Lowboy [/spoiler]

and today:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

The Lacuna D
Fever Chart



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