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ValCapone

ValCapone

Montreal, QC
June 2005

DEC 18, 2006 10:32 AM


If beauty queens can be dethroned for "dating too many men," or posing nude, what hope is there for the rest of us? Clearly, these women are of superior moral virtue. I mean, just look at them! Could anyone that gorgeous really do anything wrong?

I guess that's Donald Trump's reasoning behind his consideration of the current Miss USA's bad behavior. Tara Conner was allegedly caught partying in a variety of NYC clubs, even though she's only 20 and the legal drinking age in New York is 21. (Silly Americans! Don't you know Montreal's only an eight hour bus ride away and the drinking age here is 18?) Apparently this kind of thing is bad enough that Trump, "the self-described teetotaler," is questioning her ability to...um...lead the country's beauties. Or just stand around being beautiful? Er...huh. Well, I guess that brings us to the real question: what the hell is it that Miss USA does, anyway?

According to a Yahoo! News article,

Miss USA organizers declined to hand over a list of rules for their titleholder, but said she had to be a role model.


So role models can't be naughty, right? Wait a second, then why do lots of women grow up wanting to be porn stars, strippers and SuicideGirls?

The article goes on to state that

Miss America, another beauty pageant institution, said [...] the titleholder [...] had to "protect and enhance the image, good name and broad public acceptance of (Miss America)."


Right. So, unless you're promoting our organization and keeping us in the public's good graces so that we can sell more advertising and make more money off your pretty smile and hot body (which should never be seen naked, god forbid!), you're gonna get the boot, sweetheart.

So, why would anybody want to be a chaste beauty queen?

Oh, right:

* The new MISS USA will be crowned with a custom diamond and pearl crown designed by MIKIMOTO, valued at $200,000
* A year long salary as MISS USA
* Opportunity to represent the USA at the 2006 MISS UNIVERSE Pageant
* Personal appearance wardrobe
* A New York City apartment for the year of her reign including living expenses
* Official MISS USA pearl tiara, valued at $17,500 from Mikimoto
* A $5,000 cash prize and year supply of COVERGIRL cosmetics
* A swimsuit wardrobe from BSC SWIMSUIT THAILAND
* A custom designed wardroe by TADASHI
* A two-year scholarship from The School for Film and Television in New York City valued at $60,000
* A 4 day/ 3 night "All Inclusive" vacation from AMERICAN AIRLINES
* A $3,000 cash prize and a shoe wardrobe from Steve Madden
* A year supply of haircare by FAROUK SYSTEMS
* A one-time, speaking role on NBC's Passions
* Personal services including a year-long membership to Reebok and year-long pampering at New York City's John Barrett Salon
* Modeling portfolio by leading New York City fashion photographer Fadil Berisha
* Casting opportunities and professional representation by the Miss Universe Organization
* Extensive travel opportunities with a personal travel manager representing sponsors and charitable partners
* Access to various New York City events including movie premiers and screenings, Broadway shows and launch parties
* A professional CD Rom of interviews and appearances
* Consultation with stylist Billie Causieestko and access to an event wardrobe from leading fashion designers.
* Professional public relations media training
* Professional media/public relations representation by Rubenstein Public Relations and Planet PR in New York City
* Year-long dermatology services provided by Dr. Cheryl Thellman-Karcher


I guess selling your soul to Trump isn't such a bad idea after all. I mean, you basically get treated like a goddess for a year, so long as you remain discreet about your sexual habits and refrain from letting people take nude pix of you for a year.

After that, of course, all bets are off.

It's just funny that we hold our celebrities, no matter how minor, to these puritanical roles, expecting them to be bright, beautiful, perky and squeaky-clean 24 hours a day, 7 days a week when most of us would prefer a girl who likes to fuck to a girl who's got "all-American" values. Can't we get past this madonna/whore dichotomy in all its many guises? Beauty queens aren't so different from the rest of us ladies (except maybe in their awesome beauty and equally awesome bimbosity). Undoubtedly, they like to get shagged rotten, too. So why should we put them on pedestals and expect them to behave like angels? Because we're giving them money and material possessions that only supernatural beings deserve?

I think I see the problem. We're trying to make gods out of mortals again, and when our mortals fail, we're pissed off. We want to live vicariously through them, to attain that state of grace we don't think we've got the ability to achieve for ourselves. So we nominate our best, our brightest, our tallest, our skinniest, our best-looking-in-a-swimsuitiest and when that girl goes out drinking and vomits like the rest of us, we're understandably affronted.

The problem is that a beauty queen is just that: she is beautiful, but she is not a goddess. I wonder what would happen if we all started to realize that these idols we manufacture are just ordinary human beings? Would we still pin pictures of these lovely ladies up on our walls and aspire to be like them? Probably. They're beautiful, after all, and just being good looking goes a long way in North American society. We'd have to start expecting these girls to solve the world's problems before anything really revolutionary started to happen.

PaulNikon

PaulNikon

Palm Bay, FL
February 2003

DEC 18, 2006 04:25 PM

That seems like a lot of money too loose if you can't keep your nose clean.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:32 PM

The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.

Stop being such a ninny.

camalot

camalot

Canada
April 2006

DEC 18, 2006 04:35 PM

I think it comes down to Trump wanting to appease the uptite fossils that sponsor the pageant. There's big money to be lost if the sponsors get pissy.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:35 PM

camalot said:
I think it comes down to Trump wanting to appease the uptite fossils that sponsor the pageant. There's big money to be lost if the sponsors get pissy.



No dude. It's Trump wanting to stick to the rules of a contest he owns for Christ's sake. Why is this so hard to grasp?????

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:37 PM

This is like saying that, Manny Ramirez was called out after 3 strikes in a baseball game because he's Dominican.

camalot

camalot

Canada
April 2006

DEC 18, 2006 04:42 PM

FridgeMagnet said:

camalot said:
I think it comes down to Trump wanting to appease the uptite fossils that sponsor the pageant. There's big money to be lost if the sponsors get pissy.



No dude. It's Trump wanting to stick to the rules of a contest he owns for Christ's sake. Why is this so hard to grasp?????



Actually DUDE, it's a really easy concept to grasp. Here's another one...I commented before your comment posted, so put the fucking flamethrower away.

Jeezus.

HorseheadFiddle

HorseheadFiddle

San Diego, CA
October 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:44 PM

"* A two-year scholarship from The School for Film and Television in New York City valued at $60,000"

what the fuck?

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:44 PM

camalot said:

FridgeMagnet said:

camalot said:
I think it comes down to Trump wanting to appease the uptite fossils that sponsor the pageant. There's big money to be lost if the sponsors get pissy.



No dude. It's Trump wanting to stick to the rules of a contest he owns for Christ's sake. Why is this so hard to grasp?????



Actually DUDE, it's a really easy concept to grasp. Here's another one...I commented before your comment posted, so put the fucking flamethrower away.

Jeezus.




Listen D00D I haven't even turned my flamethrower on yet!

MOHAMMMMMED!!!

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:45 PM

Nothingful said:
"* A two-year scholarship from The School for Film and Television in New York City valued at $60,000"

what the fuck?



Cause all those pagent dorks like to go into television "journalism" so they need the edumacation.

HelloCentral

HelloCentral

Saint Agatha, ME
February 2004

DEC 18, 2006 04:59 PM

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.

Stop being such a ninny.



good post!!! I salute you. Miss USA or whatever has every right to decide what they want from the winner of their own competition. There were forms signed which detailed those qualities. if they are not upheld as agreed, why should we expect them to have to put up with it? this is, after all, a "free country."

Adroitbeing

Adroitbeing

I'm lost
September 2003

DEC 18, 2006 05:09 PM

Too true; she demonstrated signs of being almost...human, which according to pageant participation rules, is strictly forbidden, and the Trumpire called her out at the plate.

But don't you ever wish the Trumpster would have that ego pole removed from his ass?

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

DEC 18, 2006 05:12 PM

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.

Stop being such a ninny.



Thank you, Fridge.

The merits of beauty contests can certainly be debated, but I fail to see how her getting stripped of her crown for blatantly breaking the clearly expressed rules of the contest qualifies as misogyny. It's perfectly fine to do the things that she did. But if you're going to do that, don't enter the Miss USA pageant. It's a privately owned contest; it's not a right.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

DEC 18, 2006 05:17 PM

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.

camalot

camalot

Canada
April 2006

DEC 18, 2006 05:26 PM

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.



Hell yeah!

HelloCentral

HelloCentral

Saint Agatha, ME
February 2004

DEC 18, 2006 05:36 PM

camalot said:

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.



Hell yeah!



there's nothing wrong with criticizing anyone's rules theoretically. you can do it until your head falls off. but if you're proposing some sort of communist system where everyone has to agree on everything and no one can own or have final say over their things, I have to take issue with you.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 05:36 PM

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.




He wasn't criticizing the rules, he was criticizing the treatment of the girl in question.

It would be one thing to say "Miss USA Pagent Rules Are Flawed" but to say that she is being dethroned by misogyny is factually incorrect, first of all, and second of all, not what you are saying.

I disagree with a lot of rules, for instance: the fact that criticizing certain people or things related to this very website will get you kicked off the website. When this happens and people get outraged everyone says one of two things

1) Read the TOS
2) If you don't like the TOS get off the site.

Seems to me that's what Trump is saying to whatsherface.

bambam226

bambam226

Fort Worth, TX
December 2004

DEC 18, 2006 05:36 PM

If you don't like the rules...stay away from it. If your sitting on a post in the far off distance throwing stones and crying...be more constructive with your time. In my 2 yr membership here I have never seen anything major accomplished by bitching on this website.

KingHELL

kinghell

Portland, OR
July 2003

DEC 18, 2006 05:41 PM

If this molehill gets any bigger, I'm installing a ski lift on it.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 05:41 PM

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.



Also, baseball does have rules like that. It's called an umpire. An umpire calls balls and strikes as he sees them. If a pitch is 6 inches off the plate and the ump calls it a strike, it's a strike. This happens all the time. The teams in question have no means of redress because there is a rule book. That rule book governs the game and the players live with it for better of for worse. If they don't like the rules they don't have to play the game.

If someone doesn't like the Miss USA pageant rules, don't enter, don't watch, don't support the sponsors of the event. But don't suggest that Donald Trump is in the wrong for enforcing his rules, unless in so doing he is commiting unethical or criminal behavior.

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 05:54 PM

Bam said:
If you don't like the rules...stay away from it. If your sitting on a post in the far off distance throwing stones and crying...be more constructive with your time. In my 2 yr membership here I have never seen anything major accomplished by bitching on this website.



Aren't you forgetting the time we cured cancer?

phirephli

phirephli

Chandler, AZ
May 2005

DEC 18, 2006 05:57 PM

FridgeMagnet said:

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.




He wasn't criticizing the rules, he was criticizing the treatment of the girl in question.

It would be one thing to say "Miss USA Pagent Rules Are Flawed" but to say that she is being dethroned by misogyny is factually incorrect, first of all, and second of all, not what you are saying.

I disagree with a lot of rules, for instance: the fact that criticizing certain people or things related to this very website will get you kicked off the website. When this happens and people get outraged everyone says one of two things

1) Read the TOS
2) If you don't like the TOS get off the site.

Seems to me that's what Trump is saying to whatsherface.



ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap..... pwned!!!

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 06:01 PM

phirephli said:

FridgeMagnet said:

bean said:

FridgeMagnet said:
The simple fact is that she entered a contest that had certain RULES, and she no doubt signed a form that said she would adhere to those RULES. She didn't, she got caught, and there may be...wait for it..consequences. OH NOES1

If I enter into a boxing match and bring a lead pipe with me into the ring and hit my opponent with the lead pipe. I'll be disqualified, it isn't because the governing body of boxing hates lead, or pipes, it's just that, you know, I broke the fucking rules.


What sort of logic states that one can't criticize rules one disagrees with, simply because the participants agreed to those rules?

Oh, that's right, it's the same logic that says we shouldn't criticize the "Don't ask/Don't tell" policy of the military, because members of the military agreed to those policies when they signed up.

If baseball had a rule that the national champions would be stripped of their title if they didn't live up to some silly and arbitrary measure of "being a good influence," one might consider that rule a wee bit...idealistic, and one would be perfectly right to question the place that rule had in the sport.

I couldn't give two shits about the Miss USA pageant, and I'm opposed to beauty pageants in general, but there's nothing wrong with criticizing its rules.




He wasn't criticizing the rules, he was criticizing the treatment of the girl in question.

It would be one thing to say "Miss USA Pagent Rules Are Flawed" but to say that she is being dethroned by misogyny is factually incorrect, first of all, and second of all, not what you are saying.

I disagree with a lot of rules, for instance: the fact that criticizing certain people or things related to this very website will get you kicked off the website. When this happens and people get outraged everyone says one of two things

1) Read the TOS
2) If you don't like the TOS get off the site.

Seems to me that's what Trump is saying to whatsherface.



ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap..... pwned!!!



Let me just say, that I wasn't trying to pwn bean. Or snap anything by using SG as an example. It just came to mind and it was something I figured everyone could relate to. bean is a good guy from what I know of him, and I'm not trying to get into a pissing match.

So the snap and pwn was not my intended deal.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

DEC 18, 2006 06:03 PM

FridgeMagnet said:
Let me just say, that I wasn't trying to pwn bean. Or snap anything by using SG as an example. It just came to mind and it was something I figured everyone could relate to. bean is a good guy from what I know of him, and I'm not trying to get into a pissing match.

So the snap and pwn was not my intended deal.



FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

DEC 18, 2006 06:05 PM

Subrosa said:

FridgeMagnet said:
Let me just say, that I wasn't trying to pwn bean. Or snap anything by using SG as an example. It just came to mind and it was something I figured everyone could relate to. bean is a good guy from what I know of him, and I'm not trying to get into a pissing match.

So the snap and pwn was not my intended deal.





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