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Cash

Cash

USA
OLD SKOOL

DEC 17, 2006 03:05 PM

Capt_Semantic said:
However, isn't it a double-standard that eating meat (where the animals endure far more suffering than this dog did) is okay where shooting a dog isn't?



No, it isn't...and I don't think you know what a double standard is. The two acts you describe are not identical acts. A double standard is a situation in which two subjects are treated differently for performing an identical action.

For example..."Dick" is seen as a manly-man because he has had 10 sexual partners...whereas "Jane" is seen as a dirty slut because she has had 10 sexual partners.

That...is a double standard.

Capt_Semantic said:
There is no reason to eat meat. Eating meat is just as heartess and mindless as this guy shooting his dog. Many know about the vegetarian diet, but few have the moral fortitude to embrace it.



Eating meat, while it may not appeal to you, is part of nature. It is a completely natural act to consume the flesh of another animal. The examples of one animal consuming another in nature are so numerous...it would be silly to even attempt to describe them here.

You really need to pay more attention to what you actually mean instead of spewing uninformed rhetoric. What exactly is "mindless" about eating meat? To be mindless is to lack intelligence. The consumption of meat has nothing to do with a person's intelligence. There is no correlation.

Based on your post, I would assume that instead of "mindless"...you feel that eating meat is "needless".

Furthermore...I fail to see what is "heartless" about eating meat. As I stated before...the act of one animal consuming another is one of the most basic instincs.

I am not making the argument that eating meat is good and being vegetarian is bad. There is no moral value assigned to the matter. It is a choice. The problem occurs when people who have made the choice to not eat meat get a ridiculously delusional sense of moral superiorty based on their diet. The problem is only compounded when said people lack the social graces to communicate their feelings in an articulate, open-minded way.

MrStitches

MrStitches

Brooklyn, NY
November 2003

DEC 17, 2006 03:26 PM

Capt_Semantic said:

So, people say this guy was an heartless asshole creep for shooting his dog. I agree. However, isn't it a double-standard that eating meat (where the animals endure far more suffering than this dog did) is okay where shooting a dog isn't?

There is no reason to eat meat. Eating meat is just as heartess and mindless as this guy shooting his dog. Many know about the vegetarian diet, but few have the moral fortitude to embrace it.

So is it cruel? Absolutely.
Does this guy deserve a bullet through his head? If so, then a lot of us do.



You talk like your opinions are facts.

Calypso

Calypso

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

DEC 17, 2006 10:22 PM

Vanessa said:
Calypso and kaffeine, I love both of you. love



*purr* kiss

Vestril

Vestril

Coronado, CA
February 2003

DEC 17, 2006 10:51 PM

Capt_Semantic said:
A dog is killed by it's owner and it's a crime.
Millions of pigs, chickens, and cows are caged, force-fed, and killed but that is alright because it is socially acceptable anonymous consumption.
If you feel this appropriate and acceptable, that is fine. The following is not for you...

The reason why killing a dog is a crime as opposed to say a cow or chicken is because a dog is something that can be easily anthropomorphized. A random chicken carcass or a fleshy leg of lamb is not humanely accessible because it isn't an obvious living shape. It's ceases to be an animal and has become meat.

I bring to the table that eating meat in a developed society, such as the U.S.A., is unnecessary to a healthy lifestyle because it is a fact. I did not condemn anyone as being a murderer, as many did with the case of the dog. I put forth that killing an animal is an act of violence, which many in this thread echoed esp at the top of the thread as with the dog.

Now, if people want to talk in terms of hatred, for example, me being an moralistic asshole or people hating vegetarians, they're free but it is an empty dialog.

If killing animals is not acceptable, then how can passively allowing animals to be killed for meat "needlessly" be acceptable?

I'm not forcing vegetarianism on anyone (frankly, conversely as to how meat as been forced on me). I am posing a question.



Fascinating; a few points. In order to feed many more people with only vegetables, we would need more farmland (unless there's something I'm missing). We would, in fact, need a lot more. You're aware that farming isn't very friendly to animals, right? Possibly not as many animals would die, but generations of wild animals would be wiped out, as opposed to generations of domesticated animals being wiped out (though their genes prosper). I feel that one is certainly a much more clear wrong than the other, especially given that many of our domesticated animals wouldn't have much of a place in the natural world (they exist in the numbers they do because of our interest in devouring them).

Another really intersting point is--how many animals do you suppose died to bring us this conversation we're having? I mean you understand that to create the factory or warehouse that birthed the various computers involved in this palaver occupies space which, at one point in time, was occupied by animals. That to mine the materials or harvest the resources needed to build computers many animals died; often in horrible ways. Hell, even shipping the computers to wherever we are required roads (that's a hell of a lot of land area that animals used to enjoy).

The simple fact is that our species' survival is built on the blood of other animals which died so that we could have our place; and the same is true of every animal on the planet. Their continued existence requires the death of some other animal, even herbivores' existence requires some starved carnivores.

I have no problem with people eschew meat rather than chew it, but it's time to get off of your moral high horse. Killing an animal out of sadistic rage is vastly different than killing it to sustain and improve life.

MrStitches

MrStitches

Brooklyn, NY
November 2003

DEC 17, 2006 10:58 PM

Vestril said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Capt_Semantic said:
A dog is killed by it's owner and it's a crime.
Millions of pigs, chickens, and cows are caged, force-fed, and killed but that is alright because it is socially acceptable anonymous consumption.
If you feel this appropriate and acceptable, that is fine. The following is not for you...

The reason why killing a dog is a crime as opposed to say a cow or chicken is because a dog is something that can be easily anthropomorphized. A random chicken carcass or a fleshy leg of lamb is not humanely accessible because it isn't an obvious living shape. It's ceases to be an animal and has become meat.

I bring to the table that eating meat in a developed society, such as the U.S.A., is unnecessary to a healthy lifestyle because it is a fact. I did not condemn anyone as being a murderer, as many did with the case of the dog. I put forth that killing an animal is an act of violence, which many in this thread echoed esp at the top of the thread as with the dog.

Now, if people want to talk in terms of hatred, for example, me being an moralistic asshole or people hating vegetarians, they're free but it is an empty dialog.

If killing animals is not acceptable, then how can passively allowing animals to be killed for meat "needlessly" be acceptable?

I'm not forcing vegetarianism on anyone (frankly, conversely as to how meat as been forced on me). I am posing a question.



Fascinating; a few points. In order to feed many more people with only vegetables, we would need more farmland (unless there's something I'm missing). We would, in fact, need a lot more. You're aware that farming isn't very friendly to animals, right? Possibly not as many animals would die, but generations of wild animals would be wiped out, as opposed to generations of domesticated animals being wiped out (though their genes prosper). I feel that one is certainly a much more clear wrong than the other, especially given that many of our domesticated animals wouldn't have much of a place in the natural world (they exist in the numbers they do because of our interest in devouring them).

Another really intersting point is--how many animals do you suppose died to bring us this conversation we're having? I mean you understand that to create the factory or warehouse that birthed the various computers involved in this palaver occupies space which, at one point in time, was occupied by animals. That to mine the materials or harvest the resources needed to build computers many animals died; often in horrible ways. Hell, even shipping the computers to wherever we are required roads (that's a hell of a lot of land area that animals used to enjoy).

The simple fact is that our species' survival is built on the blood of other animals which died so that we could have our place; and the same is true of every animal on the planet. Their continued existence requires the death of some other animal, even herbivores' existence requires some starved carnivores.

I have no problem with people eschew meat rather than chew it, but it's time to get off of your moral high horse. Killing an animal out of sadistic rage is vastly different than killing it to sustain and improve life.




You do need to keep in mind that a large portion of the farmland we use now is used to grow food for the animals that we eat. Of course, if we stopped breeding cattle and pigs and chickens and the like for food, most of them would probably die out. Where would they live? What would they feed on? We would have to set up animal preserves so cows wouldn't go extinct. And I personally don't like the idea of feral pigs running around the woods behind my house. The deer are a big enough pain in the ass.

Vestril

Vestril

Coronado, CA
February 2003

DEC 17, 2006 11:06 PM

Gah, you've destroyed my point in one fell swoop. Curses! Foiled again mad

XtremeMeow

XtremeMeow

Kitchener, ON
January 2006

DEC 18, 2006 02:38 AM

so i get to add another person to my list of people i hate for hurting animals and must again tell people that animal cruelty laws are not tough enogh. That 180 days wasn't enough the 30 is worse and the 10 just pisses me off, i deserves life in prison while wearing that costume.

PuddinCat

PuddinCat

Riverside, NJ
July 2005

DEC 18, 2006 03:13 AM

ok...
#1- this SHOULD NOT be a debate about eating meat or not.... it's a sad story about some crazy fuck killing a poor dog for fucks sake!! why do some people want to turn every topic into this fucking debate?
It's really sad to read that some people here can't discuss anything else. We all have our opinions- we need not force meat eating ( or the lack of) on people- no more than we should come on here and preach about religon.

#2-It's greatly disturbing to me that such a little sentence is served for murder of a companion animal. Murder of a dog by a bullet to the head could only be pulled of by a person with some sort of mental issue. Clearly this person needs to be put away for a long time before he upgrades to people. Can't anyone see that?!

#3-People who mistreat animals are the scum of the earth in my eyes, You know that saying of how you can tell alot about a man by how he treats his dog? It's true. I'm cautious of people who do not have a love and respect for animal life.

#4-Animal cruelty isn't taken as seriously as it should be. As most things go- people need to take action and contact the appropriate people who can change these laws.

Targeted

Targeted

Willsboro, NY
June 2006

DEC 18, 2006 06:25 AM

Capt_Semantic said:

The_SammyD said:

Capt_Semantic said:
A dog is killed by it's owner and it's a crime.
Millions of pigs, chickens, and cows are caged, force-fed, and killed but that is alright because it is socially acceptable anonymous consumption.
If you feel this appropriate and acceptable, that is fine. The following is not for you...

The reason why killing a dog is a crime as opposed to say a cow or chicken is because a dog is something that can be easily anthropomorphized. A random chicken carcass or a fleshy leg of lamb is not humanely accessible because it isn't an obvious living shape. It's ceases to be an animal and has become meat.

I bring to the table that eating meat in a developed society, such as the U.S.A., is unnecessary to a healthy lifestyle because it is a fact. I did not condemn anyone as being a murderer, as many did with the case of the dog. I put forth that killing an animal is an act of violence, which many in this thread echoed esp at the top of the thread as with the dog.

Now, if people want to talk in terms of hatred, for example, me being an moralistic asshole or people hating vegetarians, they're free but it is an empty dialog.

If killing animals is not acceptable, then how can passively allowing animals to be killed for meat "needlessly" be acceptable?

I'm not forcing vegetarianism on anyone (frankly, conversely as to how meat as been forced on me). I am posing a question.



To encapsulate what everyone else has said to you,
GET OFF YOUR FUCKING SOAP BOX.
We don't want to hear you preach about vegetarianism (which is exactly what you are doing), and those of us who eat meat will continue to do so no matter what you say.

Just for my own curiosity, has anyone here tried to raise chickens or other farm animals? If you have, you'll probably agree with me that most of these animal are not anything like the cute cuddley puppy in your backyard. I personally don't care when an animal that will eat it's own young is killed to give me something to eat.



Firstly, if you had read my first clause, you would have realized I wasn't addressing you. Secondly, if you had read the thread you perhaps would have realized a lot of people are saying many different things. Thirdly, if you don't want to see it, don't read it, which ultimately seems to be what you've done. So congratulations!

However, your last statement brings up a good point. The human animal has advanced intellectual powers within the animal community. We don't eat our young, not literally anyway. Is it okay to kill/ (maybe I should you a euphemism instead of kill) butcher/euthanize an animal that eats it's young? I say no, because humans should be able to observe the animal nature of an action like eating the young.



The purpose of my post was to redirect the conversation. I figured that if I was big enough of an ass, you would shut up and go away. Looks like I thought wrong. So how about this: Shut up, stop using this thread to get attention for yourself, and let us get back on subject. tongue

P.S. I apologize for taking the time to fully read a thread before making a comment. It was so rude of me to try and get the full meaning of what everyone had to say. biggrin

Sexdwarf

Sexdwarf

Hermosa Beach, CA
February 2003

DEC 18, 2006 05:16 PM

Ok, this guy is a fucker, especially cause it was a Great Dane, but for some shmo 30 days in jail really should be enough to convince you its not worth shooting Marmaduke.

They should've assigned him community service with those guys who pick up roadkill, I think that would be both more fitting and more productive.

Drake

Drake

SUICIDEGIRL

I'm lost

DEC 18, 2006 08:52 PM

Morgan said:
Oh lord, I can't believe this turned into a fucking meat vs. veggie debate.

Look, it is possible to eat meat from animals that are killed humanely and quickly. There is a big difference between choosing to eat meet and SHOOTING A DOG IN THE HEAD. If you don't see the difference, I suggest you get YOUR head examined, because you've got logic issues.



I agree with this.

People do not love and value all animals equally (maybe some say they do, but I don't believe them). Dogs and cats are our companions. Cattle and pigs and chickens are food. Dogs and cats make lousy food... chickens make sucky companions. It makes sense to me that people will get upset over the mistreatment of their animal "friends," and not give a shit how cows are slaughtered.

If you really think krill, cockroaches, turkeys and Great Danes should all be loved equally and treated with the same standards, carry on, but I think you're a kook.

tongue

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

DEC 18, 2006 10:02 PM

Calypso said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

First point, regarding the animal's suffering. The dog was shot in its head, and didn't die right away. The dog lay helplessly on the ground as the police were called, as the police were in transit, and until they finally arrived and rushed the poor creature to the veterinary ER. Because a cow suffers more during its lifetime does not de-value the pain this dog endured.

Second point, claiming that there is no reason to eat meat. I agree that humans should not consume meat as often as we do, which for most of us is daily. Our ancestors would've eaten meat once a week...if they were lucky. Otherwise, they would forage for roots, berries, and whatever else they could forage.

To say that there is no reason to eat meat is just mind-boggling to me. I've seen you granola-eating, pretentious, elitists. You've got little meat on your bones, and you look as though you suffer from sickle-cell anemia. Are you to tell me that that is how humans are to look in nature? No.

If I had it my way, everything I ate would be free-range. I've tried vegetarianism...I've even tried being a vegan. I never felt satisfied, and I never felt healthy. Before you accuse me of not "taking supplements," or what have you, know that I did. Would our ancestors have had convenient little pills to take with their meals? No.

This is why many people HATE vegetarians/vegans. Yes, you've got every right to voice your opinion...but when you say something like "eating meat is just as heartess [sic] and mindless as this guy shooting his dog," you should expect that people will not find you credible, nor will they respect your point of view.




people sure do hate being told that they're wrong -- not even objective facts can sway someone who emotionally objects to something. ah well, can't herd cats either.

for the record, i think the "natural" argument for eating meat is, at this point in time, a ways off the mark. industrial farming is the way it's supposed to be? well then, we're fucked.

and before anyone mentions it: no, a small farm based system of local producers can't support enough people to make it a feasible replacement.

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

DEC 18, 2006 10:05 PM

PuddinCat said:
...we need not force meat eating ( or the lack of) on people- no more than we should come on here and preach about religon...



not picking on you specifically, but that quote is one of the best illustrations of it so far in this thread:

IT'S NOT RELIGION IT'S FUCKING SCIENCE.

ahem. sorry for the caps there.

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