Kramer: Total Racist.

wow, these last two posts make me depressed, more than Michael Richards flying off the handle.

Why? Do you know Michael Richards? Did he tell you he hates black people? I'm only suggesting that it's pretty rediculous to label Michael Richards a racist after a bad comedy routine.

did I say or imply that he was a racist?

well, the "last two posts," that you referred to in your initial comment, both suggested that it was awfully simple minded to judge Richards a racist after this incident. I'm just curious what's depressing about that, that's all.

Well in defense of the man again, I haven't heard what the hecklers were saying or how long it had been going on.

I've got my own story about some racial stuff but I'll put that in my journal later.

It doesn't matter, really. I can't explain it. It probably wouldn't make sense if I tried. Because the unfortunate truth is that you'll never see out of my eyes, and I'll never see out of yours. That being said, at least we can try and treat each other with some level of respect while we're on this planet together.

And I'll leave it at that.

You guys don't fucking get it. The guys a racist. That wasn't a comedy routine...I'm sure you don't think Mel Gibson is a racist either.

Even Richards has apologized, why can't you see that what he did was fucked up?

And how the fuck is it "simple minded" to judge someone a racist when they spout racist shit? Really, sometimes people amaze me.

Also, he didn't just say "nigger a lot" He said that the guy would have been strung up 50 years ago, and that "this is what happens when you interrupt a white man" No racism there, none at all.

Yeah, sorry if I came across as disrespectful. You're right.

FTR, I don't think you came off as disrespectful. I wasn't suggesting that per se -- more a hope that we as a planet can be more respectful to one another as we have differing opinions on things, and with regard to race and religion and other things like that.

Wow, easy there turbo. I'm not apologizing for Richards' antics. And I don't think anybody else is. It was a mistake, he has admitted it. It was a bad attempt at shock humor, and it was idiotic. You think Richards is a racist. I'm just more willing to accept his apology. That's all.

I accept his apology too. Offering an apology doesn't make one no longer a racist, and I don't get the logic that would make that so.

I'm sorry. Just to clarify: You're saying it's okay for a white guy to call a black guy a nigger? Seriously? Maybe I misinterpreted your statement. If so, please explain.

I think it was more like 3 minutes of him losing it. I think he's racist, but not from the video of him flipping out. It was from the apology. He reminds me a lot of some people that I've known. They would explain how they aren't racist, they just don't trust black people.

A couple of weeks ago I went to see some comedians. They were white and a lot of their routines were racial, but they made sure to make fun of everyone equally; indians, mexicans, whites, blacks, and more, including themselves.

I probably should have been more specific there. I meant, I accept his apology and believe him when he says he isn't a racist. We'd never even heard whispers that Richards' was a racist before a day or so ago. And he's been a well known celebrity for a good 15-16 years. I'm just not willing to label this dude a flaming racist for the rest of his life because of one idiotic tantrum at a comedy club. Call me a forgiving, kind soul. Or stupid, if you wish.

I have no problem forgiving the guy. I have a major problem with people rationalizing his actions. That is where almost all of the momentum of the other thread came from. Forgiveness is an entirely separate concept from excusing.

Whether I ever did or still do think the guy is a racist has very little to do with the fact that I strongly believe his actions were very racist and are inexcusable. It's not like I am going to boycott Seinfeld or something.

I have a problem with people giving a shit about the comments of Michael Richards. Who cares if he's a racist. Who the fuck is he, a guy who got lucky playing an idiot on Seinfeld. I'm more concerned about the racists running the government and not some two bit comedian. fight a real fight.

I have a problem giving a shit about your problem, especially since these threads are on the 'gossip about celebs 'n stuff' board. I don't care if he is racist, i do care if he uses racism as a method of attack, no matter how low the stakes. Passive acceptance of such things coming from the wacky guy on Seinfeld would appear to be relevant when considering the passive acceptance of such things coming from government officials or government in general.

It's not acceptance, it just shouldn't matter. He's not a celeb. Where is his career? Himself and his comments are of no consequence. No one is going to change the way they think or act over this guy. He has no hold over anyone and has no say or power.

Not responding to people attempting to defend his actions is passive acceptance. In the macro or the micro, it matters. They go hand in hand. It's not like I am going to lose sleep over what the guy did, but simply dismissing verbal racist attacks as unimportant because the results of institutional racism will effect more people does not make sense. A society that has no problem with one is a lot more likely to have no problem with, and/or ignore the problems and causes of the other.

If he were not a celebrity we never would have seen the tape. Are you saying that it would be of note if he were a celebrity (in your judgment)?

I don't really disagree all that much. My only comments on either of these threads involve the defensive response from several posters, which I find far more disturbing than Richards' tantrum. There is no defense. Most of the discussion on these two threads center around people's responses to what he said.

We are on a message board. It does not have to change the world. Subjects are brought up and then conversations evolve from them. It does not mean participants are turning a blind eye to institutional/governmental racism.

My whole point was that it's a petty debate. He's just one more person making racial statements. If the conversation was about racism in general that's a different story but it was about this particular individual who is irrelevent. The media just needs to tell a story to sell some ads and magazines. We shouldn't waste time on this guy. My comment about him being a celeb was in response to your comment that this is a celeb or whatever board and I was just trying to point out that the guy isn't really anybody. he happened to get lucky being on Seinfeld. I agree with you on alot of points you made on racism, I was just trying to say who cares about Michael Richards and what he says.

Sure, but in large part, the conversation evolved into being about racism in general, which is why the threads blew up. I don't think there was a rabid throng of people who were obsessed with Michael Richards.

I said it was the 'gossip about celebs 'n stuff' board. If Richards doesn't fit into celebs, I'm almost sure he fits into stuff . My point was that you were complaining about people talking about some guy on a message board that prides itself on talking about the most inane topics and people available. Look around you. Michael Richards going on a racist tantrum in a public place with hundreds of witnesses is in the upper tier of topics with real world relevance on the Lifestyle board. I can't think of a single gossip rag or tabloid that would not talk about a guy who was on one of the most famous sitcoms in the history of American TV going on a racist tirade just because his career hasn't exactly been aces since Seinfeld went off the air 8 years ago. If Jerry Mathers did the same thing it would be a big story for a couple of days and that guy has been MIA since 1963. Michael Richards is famous. I don't see how this is even arguable.

I don't care about most celebrities, and I especially don't care about what almost any of them say (especially the wacky guy from Seinfeld), but if they do something particularly insane in public I'm not going to write People magazine and wonder why they are talking about it. Newspapers, on the other hand...

Westley said:
I don't care about most celebrities, and I especially don't care about what almost any of them say


My point exactly!

This conversation quit being about Michael Richards the second someone tried to excuse his actions. I personally would have forgotten about this by now if I didn't see so many people saying "get over it".

I can buy that he himself is confused and doesn't know what came over him, but people are trying to make excuses for it when HE says there's no excuse himself. Just because I'm not gonna boycott one of my favorite shows over the incident doesn't mean I should be able to tell someone else it's no big deal. Especially someone like my uncle who has graphic memories of friends and relatives hanging from a tree 50 years ago.