Burly fireman bent over the table for not attending gay parade.

BBC News story.

Whatever your views of the firemen being homophobes is, ask yourself one question, what the fuck does handing out leaflets at a parade have to do with being a fireman? And the purpose wasn't one of a recruitment drive to show how diverse and multi-whatsnamed the Service was, the purpose was

so someone thinks that the gays are all twisted firestarters?

Maybe not but if I'd trained to be a fireman I'd want a say in how my time was used when it came to twatting about being a hostess with the mostest.

I can see their reluctance to show up to a gay pride parade in uniform. I don't know about the UK...but here in the US...firefighters are not exactly the leading proponents of diversity.

On the other hand...an order is an order. Disobeying a lawful order because "we don't wanna" isn't a valid excuse.

maybe they could have gotten some cops, construction workers, cowboys, and native americans, too.

Probably the reason they didn't wish to participate.

That really is a standard part of the job. Handing out leaflets, giving talks at schools, safety inspections (especially for old people), smoke detector promotion and installation.

Now they've been joined by an organization with more than a thousand year history of persecuting homosexuals. That'll really help.

It's not really a standard part of the job. Your standard front-line firefighter doesn't really do the community-based aspect of fire prevention. Most departments have a special bureau for fire prevention. It is staffed by a Fire Official & Fire Inspectors. They are firefighters but they aren't on the front-line service. They do all of the presentations & whatnot.

I'm not trying to be pedantic, though.

Closer to two thousand years, isn't it?

No "flaming homosexual" jokes?

Yeah, I should have said those are standard parts of the job when the power that be are doing a high profile campaign. I've seen a few over the years, where everyone mucked in. God knows how common those are in Strathclyde though.

I think we have to allow for the possibility that, for a few years, they found something better to do.

This year not being one them.

Your thinking of the US system of fire departments, here in the UK they are first of all called Brigades and that is part of the many differences.
Yes at the end of the day they are all for fire prevention and all of that, but they are also part of the community. Handing out leaflets on fire prevention to everyone would help awareness increase, and hopefully help to keep Firemen here out of dangers way and not risk their lives.

At the end of the day gay people aren't the only ones who need this advice and they shouldnt be told that some guys dont want them to know how to protect themselves.

Also another difference is as you have just said they are firefighters, in the UK they are Firemen, so this entails everything involved in the prevention. This was part of their job descriptions so I dont see why everyone here is complaining about it.

damn

Don't let yourself be fooled. Five minutes after Christ was gone, Paul of Tarsus was all "Queers are going to h-e-double-hockey-stick."

Semantics...pure semantics. The name means nothing. It's like the difference between a TV and a tele.

I'm not assuming that Fire Departments in the US are identical to those in the UK...but saying that they're different because We call them departments while you call them brigades.....that's just nonsense.

Nobody is advocating the exclusion of homosexuals from public education about fire safety.

I am saying that forcing firemen to hand out leaflets at a gay pride parade may not have been the best way to go about it.

Why do you think that sexual orientation warrants special attention from the fire department? Is there something different you would tell a homosexual about fire safety? What is so special about the gay community, in relation to fire safety education, that simply HAD to be addressed at this parade?

Is it wholly impossible that this was part of a political ploy by the higher-ups in the Fire Department? Some stunt to say "Hey look....the Fire Brigade is politically correct"...and maybe the members of the department resented that?

Once again...the terms "firefighter" & "fireman" are interchangable. They mean the exact same thing. Once again...your point is a semantic one and has no bearing on the topic.

Finally I fail to see where "everyone here is complaining about it". Crivelli started the topic, Tadzi made a joke, quagmirething's response was more of a dig at the church, Clov's remark was in response to quagmirething's dig at the church and Pointblank's remark was more or less a joke.

My initial response was that while I understood the firefighter's reluctance to particiapte...their actions were not really the best course of action.

It would lead me to wonder, "If they can't get over handing out fire safety information at a parade, how're they going to feel about risking their lives for homosexuals?"

When I kill a homophobe, can I use the excuse, "The duty to obey one's conscience is a higher duty than that of obeying laws"?

Really? Do you honestly think a firefighter would let a person die when they had the power to save them...just because they were a homosexual? That's not even taking into account how ridiculously impossible it would be to tell by looking at a house if homosexuals lived there. Unless, I suppose, they were screaming for help from the roof of the house....wearing gold lamay & a feather boa.

I'm a fireman. I hate drug addicts...but I took one to the hospital last night when she ODd on heroin...because it's my job.

I hate rich, snobby people...but I helped put out a huge fire in a very expensive part of town...because it's my job.

I'm sure some firefighters are homophobes. When I say that...I'm not making an educated guess. When I say that, I mean I know first-hand that some firefighters are full-on homophobic, intolerant people. They still save people, no matter the situation...because that's their job.

"We don't want to go to your fucking parade" does not translate into "I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire"

This wasn't like they were rejecting a social invitation. They said "No" to their boss about something as simple as community outreach because of where someone puts their dick.

And yes, I honestly think a person would let someone die because they were a homosexual. People will actually kill others because they are queer. I have no trouble imagining a person deciding a gay life is not worth saving, especially someone whose "conscience" won't let them hand out fliers at a parade.

Clearly, "because it's their job" is not reason enough for them do anything.

Wow...just...wow. Do you even realize how irrelevant Harvey Milk, Matthew Shephard & Branton Teena are to this conversation?

This is a discussion about firefighters not wanting to appear in uniform at a gay pride parade...and you invoke some of the most high-profile cases of gay people being murdered. The three cases you presented are examples of someone being brutally and purposely murdered. You are seriously misguided...to the point of being irresponsible.

We are talking about the conduct of a firefighter in the course of their official duties. You firmly believe that a firefighter/EMS worker...in the commission of their duties in an emergency situation would say, without hesitation, "fuck that...I'm not helping that queer"?

This is about some immature guys who didn't want to go to a gay pride parade. This is not about Matthew Shepard, Harvey Milk & Brandon Teena. The fact that you'd view the two in the same context is ludicrous.

In the conversation we were having, in which I asserted that homophobia in one area could easily translate to a homosexual's life not being saved in another is directly related to people whose deaths were because of people who hated homosexuals. You asked if someone would stand by and let a homosexual die if it is their job to save people. I say, yes, there are people who are willing to kill homosexuals because they are homosexuals so how difficult is it to believe that someone would let someone die because they're a homosexual?

Yes. Regardless of whether their occupation in general involves saving people's lives, I think a homophobe would stand by and let a person they think is homosexual die. Especially if they had previously defied orders to do something as simple as handing out fliers to potential gheys. If they had been asked to spend a week living in the Gay Buttsecks Commune and Lube-a-torium to assist in making the compound more fireproof, I might understand. But this was handing out fliers.

This tells me you know little, if anything, about emergency service workers.

I don't believe emergency service workers are any better than the general population. I don't think any sizable occupation is any better than the general population.