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Carmen

Carmen

SUICIDEGIRL

New York, USA

AUG 26, 2006 11:46 AM

For dogs, that is.
I've recently moved to a fairly ritzy neighborhood in brooklyn, ny and have noticed a lot of people with big dogs use these:


What is everyone's opinion on these collars? I think that there is no reason to have large dogs in NYC anyway where they cant possibly have enough room to move, and even LESS of a reason to ever have to use a collar like that on a dog- I'm of the school of thought that if its too big for you to control, you shouldn't own it.
I've had conversations with local per owners abot this (and no, i'm not preaching to them on the street, its generally just something that has come up) and i find it interesting that the same people who would NEVER EVER spank their kids (because, you know, THATS ABUSE!) wont think twice about putting one of these on their golden retreiver.


As a note- I am not a bleeding heart for animal rights or anything and dont want to turn this into a vegan versus the rest of us battle. I've been known to use the invisible fence shocky collar thing for my pets when I lived in places with yards, under the theory that it was better for them to be able to run around freely and was no more inhumane then letting them get HIT BY A CAR (which one had in the passed chasing a vehicle) I feel that the difference was that the dog could kind of chose if he got shocked- we had a 2 arce large yard and they KNEW where the wire was- sometimes it was worth it for them, sometimes it wasnt. However, walking a huge dog in a city (which is something the dog NEEDS and cannot control) and basically dragging them through crowds of people with those things jabbing them seems a little less humane- not to mention that gentle leeders work phenominally well for large dogs.



Thoughts?

Phoenixgirl

Phoenixgirl

I'm lost
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 11:56 AM

There is nothing wrong with these collars, They are very humane, and do not hurt the dog in any way as long as they are used properly. They are for trainuing and walking only, and are not just for big dogs, but for any dog really as they do come in much smaller sizes. They are much better that the traditional chock collars, which can definately hurt a dog's neck. I have used them before, and I highly reccomend them for training purposes.

WaTed

WaTed

United Kingdom
September 2002

AUG 26, 2006 11:57 AM

Surely that's just a dog torture device?

IDGAS

IDGAS

Jackson Heights, NY
March 2004

AUG 26, 2006 11:57 AM

I have always used a standard choke chain on all of our large dogs no matter where we have lived. I do not ever want to own a dog that must be controlled with that type of collar. If a dog needs that kind of collar, it is the owners fault for not training the dog correctly.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 12:37 PM

My husband bought one for our dog, and I refused to let him put it on him. To prove to me that it wouldn't hurt him, he put it around my bare leg and pulled on it. No, it doesn't hurt. I am guessing that the reasoning behind using one of those rather than a standard choke chain is that when you snap it up, it makes a 'biting' sensation on the dog's neck. It is a pack dominance thing, not a pain thing. When used correctly (stressing correctly) it does not in any way hurt the dog. I would rather use that for a few months to teach my dog how to walk on a leash than have him constantly choking himself straining against a collar.

Sooze

Sooze

United Kingdom
June 2005

AUG 26, 2006 12:43 PM

You dont need one if you train your dog.

Many people use them as an alternative to training, because that takes effort.

Although the collars are not nessecerily cruel, they can be misused and are unneccesary.

Especially as there are alternatives such as harness' that lift a dog up, etc.

Phoenixgirl

Phoenixgirl

I'm lost
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 12:47 PM

These collars actually work for the better in training your dog, you just give a quick tug as you are giving a command, and they learn....it is not a torture device...and to say that its the owners fault for not training their dog correctly thus having to use that collar is just wrong!!!!

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 12:52 PM

Everyone has their opinions on what is the best way to train a dog. Not every dog is the same, and you can't train them all in the same way. My dog didn't just need to be taught how to walk on a leash, he was also a hunting dog, and I promise you, training a hunting dog isn't 'taking the easy way out' for anything.

noirkiss3

noirkiss3

Minneapolis, MN
April 2006

AUG 26, 2006 01:23 PM

Big dogs are pretty immune to the pain of those, but I see no reason to use them. My bud has topped out at around 90 lbs and the main control device is verbal. He feels worse displeasing me than he ever would from some physical response. Contact was needed to get him that way but it wasn't abusive.
His parents were very dominant and so is he, and it took me showing him that I was the alpha to get him in line. I literally would pin him down when he did something wrong. He would try to wiggle free, but I would just pin him in place and firmly tell him what was what. Between that and working on commands and play, a dog learns respect and love. I don't even need to tie him up as he responds to verbal commands so well.
I think those are for people that are not willing to spend the very real amount of time it takes to properly train a dog.

BTW my friends parents had a shock collar for their dog when we were in highschool, no game of truth or dare should be without one! tongue

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 01:50 PM

All of this "not taking the right amount of time to train a dog" is bullshit.

We spent hours every day training our dog. Made special trips to lakes and ponds to teach him water training. He isn't abused in any way, and if you could see him laying on our couch eating popcorn with me, or sitting there in a Texans jersey with my husband during football games, even the most tenderhearted PETA advocate would melt. If I thought that that collar hurt him in any way, I would never have allowed my husband to put it on him. There is a mistake in assuming that the only training method used on the dog is that collar. It is coupled with strenous verbal, regular leash, and hand signals.



StudentDriver

StudentDriver

Greenwood, IN
June 2004

AUG 26, 2006 02:12 PM

Might be kind of fun to use in BDSM use. Not that I know firsthand... *ahem*

Though the barbs look unpointed, they're obviously angled to "dig in" to whatever is wearing them. In the case of a dog, there's going to be unavoidable tugging/straining at the collar, even if the dog is behaving 100%; seems somewhat unfair to punish the dog with some stabs in the neck for doing natural movements during a walk. If it's used for special purposes-- like the above-mentioned training-- it's probably not so bad, but everyday use? Bleah.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 02:21 PM

StudentDriver said:
Might be kind of fun to use in BDSM use. Not that I know firsthand... *ahem*

Though the barbs look unpointed, they're obviously angled to "dig in" to whatever is wearing them. In the case of a dog, there's going to be unavoidable tugging/straining at the collar, even if the dog is behaving 100%; seems somewhat unfair to punish the dog with some stabs in the neck for doing natural movements during a walk. If it's used for special purposes-- like the above-mentioned training-- it's probably not so bad, but everyday use? Bleah.



We had a regular collar/leash on him, and then this seperate but worn at the same time. When he was acting up, a quick snap on the biting choker was all that was needed. For the majority of the walk, he was just being walked with a regular collar.

and happy birthday

StudentDriver

StudentDriver

Greenwood, IN
June 2004

AUG 26, 2006 03:04 PM

Sounds like a good compromise-- slack can be kept on the biting collar until needed, with tension in the normal collar. I guess my concern is with people using the barbed thing as an everyday collar rather than a special training device.

And thanks! Forgot it was my birthday (3rd shift worker, difficult to remember which day is which)!

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

AUG 26, 2006 03:18 PM

Jynee said:
There is nothing wrong with these collars, .


Actually, these are just as dangerous as a choke collar. Instead of crushing the wind pipe with a choker, these can pierce the skin and the wind pipe.

There are only two collars that constrict around thee neck that are safe and approved by most training and animal rights organizations.

I guarantee that with a Gentle Leader and a chest harness, I can control 90% of dogs BETTER than those using a choker.

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

AUG 26, 2006 03:19 PM

P.S. Carmen, let me know what neighborhood it is... I'll Bridge & Tunnel from NJ to kick those people in the balls!

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 03:21 PM

mydogfarted said:

Jynee said:
There is nothing wrong with these collars, .


Actually, these are just as dangerous as a choke collar. Instead of crushing the wind pipe with a choker, these can pierce the skin and the wind pipe.

There are only two collars that constrict around thee neck that are safe and approved by most training and animal rights organizations.

I guarantee that with a Gentle Leader and a chest harness, I can control 90% of dogs BETTER than those using a choker.



IMPROPER use of those collars can cause damage. Don't assume that everyone who uses one uses it to torture their fucking dogs with. I could choke a dog to death with a regular collar if I was so inclined.

mydogfarted

mydogfarted

Oakland, NJ
June 2003

AUG 26, 2006 03:29 PM

DancehallDreamer said:

mydogfarted said:

Jynee said:
There is nothing wrong with these collars, .


Actually, these are just as dangerous as a choke collar. Instead of crushing the wind pipe with a choker, these can pierce the skin and the wind pipe.

There are only two collars that constrict around thee neck that are safe and approved by most training and animal rights organizations.

I guarantee that with a Gentle Leader and a chest harness, I can control 90% of dogs BETTER than those using a choker.



IMPROPER use of those collars can cause damage. Don't assume that everyone who uses one uses it to torture their fucking dogs with. I could choke a dog to death with a regular collar if I was so inclined.



Where the fuck did I assume anything? I simply stated the dangers of these collars. ANY collar can choke a dog to death, I'm not a moron and yes - most of the fucking assholes using these collars ARE torturing their dogs. How many of them actually are trained in using this type of collar?

I understand that in the assbackwards land of Bush they call Texas, things are different - but reality is what it is and these are methods of torture.

quagmirething

quagmirething

I'm lost
June 2005

AUG 26, 2006 03:33 PM

Not that I know anything about the subject personally, but I did see an interesting TV program once smile

It was about a guy who took care of dogs which were dangerously out of control. He very much agreed with noirkiss3, that dogs are pack animals, they're happier knowing their place in a pack. Walking them didn't need collars and leads, for one thing there were just too many, because they were acting like a pack with him as the alpha.

Eternalxile

Eternalxile

Irving, TX
March 2003

AUG 26, 2006 03:39 PM

i have a standard choke chain for my dog, but thats because every other type of collar ive bought her, she's chewed right through.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 03:43 PM

mydogfarted said:

DancehallDreamer said:

mydogfarted said:

Jynee said:
There is nothing wrong with these collars, .


Actually, these are just as dangerous as a choke collar. Instead of crushing the wind pipe with a choker, these can pierce the skin and the wind pipe.

There are only two collars that constrict around thee neck that are safe and approved by most training and animal rights organizations.

I guarantee that with a Gentle Leader and a chest harness, I can control 90% of dogs BETTER than those using a choker.



IMPROPER use of those collars can cause damage. Don't assume that everyone who uses one uses it to torture their fucking dogs with. I could choke a dog to death with a regular collar if I was so inclined.



Where the fuck did I assume anything? I simply stated the dangers of these collars. ANY collar can choke a dog to death, I'm not a moron and yes - most of the fucking assholes using these collars ARE torturing their dogs. How many of them actually are trained in using this type of collar?

I understand that in the assbackwards land of Bush they call Texas, things are different - but reality is what it is and these are methods of torture.



Oh, look, a jab about me being from Texas. How very...brilliant of you. Such an original thought you have there. We ain't nothin but a bunch of dumb rednecks because Bush can't say 'nuclear'

Those collars themselves are not torture devices, like I said I put the collar on my bare leg and jerked on it to guage how badly it hurt. And it didn't. At all. I jerked harder on my own leg than I ever did my dog. I am quite sure that some people using those collars do misuse them, but I have also seen dogs straining at regular collars until they are wheezing because their OWNERS are idiots. It isn't because the collar itself is a torture device. Anyone who MISUSES this collar are more than likely the same kind of fucks that would MISUSE any type of training device in order to use pain to train their animal.

Cindarrr

Cindarrr

HOPEFUL

Bowling Green, KY

AUG 26, 2006 03:53 PM

I use a pincher collar just like the one pictures. I have a Pointer mix who is very loving and full of energy.
I HAVE trained her since she was a pup and she knows that mama's word is LAW.
But I still can't take her out with out one of those collars.
She is very strong and could drag me down the street with out one of those things.
Does she drag me down the street because I didn't train her?
Nope
She drags me around because she is excited.once she has calmed down from the excitement of going for a walk the pincher chain will hang loosely off her neck for the remainder of the walk. She knows not to pull me, but if she starts to, a simple tug will remind her that I am in control. Its just like when someone comes over to visit, she gets excited and wants to jump up and lick their face and I may need to apply some pressure to the collar area (area i.e. she doesn't wear all the time) to get her to sit down. Thats how dogs know whos boss.
When i used a choke chain she just didn't get it. and she would make awful noises. this collar is the best trainer I've ever used.
I'm glad when I see people using them, it ussually means they have a well behaved dog.

sillyokio

sillyokio

Fort Worth, TX
January 2005

AUG 26, 2006 03:57 PM

I use this type of collar with my chow. She's got a massive amount of hair, and the pinch tends to get tangled less than an normal "choke" chain.
I use it only when out walking around with her, and due to wonderful training on both my part and hers, I hardly, if ever, have to pull it taught against her neck.


As long as the owner knows how to properly use a collar like this, I see no problem with it.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

AUG 26, 2006 03:59 PM

sillyokio said:
I use this type of collar with my chow. She's got a massive amount of hair, and the pinch tends to get tangled less than an normal "choke" chain.
I use it only when out walking around with her, and due to wonderful training on both my part and hers, I hardly, if ever, have to pull it taught against her neck.


As long as the owner knows how to properly use a collar like this, I see no problem with it.



But you are from Texas and therefore don't know anything. wink

Let's have stupid backwards Texas sex!

*humps silly*

sillyokio

sillyokio

Fort Worth, TX
January 2005

AUG 26, 2006 03:59 PM

mydogfarted said:
I understand that in the assbackwards land of Bush they call Texas, things are different - but reality is what it is and these are methods of torture.




I want to know where this came from. mad

sillyokio

sillyokio

Fort Worth, TX
January 2005

AUG 26, 2006 04:00 PM

DancehallDreamer said:
But you are from Texas and therefore don't know anything. wink

Let's have stupid backwards Texas sex!

*humps silly*



*humps dreamer*

love

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