Unified Theory Of Spirituality

Luke's (Sort Of) Unified Theory Of Spirituality

Here's some of my limited thoughts on how I observe spirituality to actually be. It's based upon my preconceptions of Christianity, but if you read through to the end, you'll see that it's not limited to any one belief system:

OK. First off, I was raised Catholic and it made me atheist (long story, revolves around hypocrisy, but that's what happened). When I was 17, through a series of what could only be described as 'miracles', I took on the belief that there must be a god or God or higher force, etc...I was attending a church which was actually really, really good. Another long story and the pastor left to another state, I believe. I went all around looking for another good church and they all SUCK! I moved to Florida and eventually got around to attending a place I should have never been at. It made me into one of those conformist Christians. You know the type: only my beliefs are correct, judgemental, condescending, highly religious activity-based, etc. I left there and after some time began to actually read the Bible and think for myself. I began to question a lot of the things I had read in the Bible. I wondered how certain things could be stated so bluntly which made hell look like the final destination for most everyone. On the surface, there were MANY contradictions in the Christian texts. I was confused. I knew what I believed was correct (at least for me) due to the many strange experiences I had gone through, but I could not understand how my belief system meshed with the rest of the world. SOMEONE had to be correct/incorrect. That's when I began to consider things such as:

It states in the Bible that every person will hear the truth about Salvation. This didn't make any sense because it was written specifically in the context of Christianity, but at the same time I was reading it, there were many, many, MANY people in tribes in India (for instance) who were dying without ever hearing these words I was reading. I thought about it for a bit and realized that no where in the Bible did it state that a person necessarily has to hear the truth about God while still alive. It just simply states that a person must decide. Furthermore, if God is as loving as I've been taught to believe, there is no WAY he can hold it against a person if they reject this fake western version of American Christianity I see every day. It wouldn't be fair. In fact, it would be just as unfair as when I hear people arguing that stillborn bables go to hell. It makes no sense at all. That's not the character of a god that I choose to believe in.

I considered the issue a bit more and now came to the conclusion that if someone is misled in this life on the topic of spirituality, then they were never given a fair shot and as such it is unfair for them to be judged by a standard they never knew. This applies to every and all religions. Regardless of what is or isn't the 'correct' faith, the point is that typically people form opinions and beliefs based upon experience and, in general, mulling things over in their minds. Let's assume religion X is absolutely false. Someone is raised in a cult compound where, for their entire life, all they ever hear is propaganda supporting this religion. The only people they ever come into contact with is other crazies who believe this crap. They live and die only knowing this one belief system. None other was ever presented to them. In fact, it didn;t occur to them that there COULD be a different faith. It's just THAT engrained into them. Now, when they die, is it fair for any god to send them to hell for not following the 'proper' faith? A 'proper' faith which they had never heard of? Not at all. I can only speak for Christianity as this is all I really know, but the God spoken of in the Bible would not condemn someone in this situation and it's not hard at all to find supporting evidence of this in the Christian texts. So this exposes a strange realm where someone can believe totally fucked up shit their entire life and yet, once they die, they could be presented with the truth of the universe and THEN make up their mind as to whether to believe it or not. This at least covers all the religions of the world. I'm convinced that they're all wrong (on some level). Surely some are more wrong than others as translations/languages, civilizations, manipulations and culture has changed over thousands of years. If this is truly the case and we must decide in the here and now, then we're all fucked...but I don't believe that is the case. Another interesting thing in the Bible specifically states that the law of God was written on the hearts of men. This has some other interesting ramifications in that it opens us to the possibility that not that same laws were given to each person. Most people instinctively seem to follow a certain set of internal rules which tell them what is right or wrong regardless of what society has taught. Some people don't seem to have a conscience at all. They truly do not know the difference between right and wrong. So...if they do something that is totally OK by them (and maybe even by society), is it right for them to be judged harshly because of that? Moreso, if an otherwise upstanding person is involved in a car accident and loses functionality in part of their brain and goes on a murderous rampage, is that their fault? What is they did nothing wrong at all? What if a drunk driver crossed the median, hit them, caused brain damage and they lose connection with reality? Is it fair for them to be sent to any hell for that which is not their fault? That's an extreme example, but illustrates my point:

a.) Nearly 100% of all people know what is a proper conduct for them, even if it does not jive with society's standards;
b.) The ones who don't have some mental impairement;
c.) This world is increasingly teaching it's inhabitants to not be good, nice people.

In a situation such as this, does it make sense to hold everyone to the same standard? Not to me. It instead makes much more sense to hold each person to their own individual standard -- that behaviour which they know is right and wrong for THEM. After all, as I said before, many of the religions of today teach a value system which is absolutely whacked out. Most of the Christianity in churches I come across teaches that hell is such an easy place to get into and heaven is only for the few, but these are merely words from brainwashed manipulators trying all they can to accomplish some person achievement of building the largest congregation possible. After having considered the idea for a long time, I must admit that I believe hell is actually a very difficult place to get in to. I think that in the end, we'll be surprised at how few people are actually there. Why? Because there are absolutely COUNTLESS little events which occur during our lifetimes which mold they way we see the world. Most of these events take place totally out of our control. Some of these make us more pessimistic; some make us disbelieving and still some even make us gullible. How is it right for a person to be judged when, by all accounts, they haven't been offered the reality of the situation?

The funny thing about all this is that if everyone believed it, there would be no more religious wars, crusades, etc. There would be no more useless judgement passing down from one person to the next. There would be no one running around condemning someone to hell for robbing a store or being gay or whatever the hell else people like to dish out. There was a time in earth's history where there was no religion. I really do believe there is a God in charge of all this and the reason religion was created was to reign in some of the more aggressive people. Just in my lifetime, I've seen much higher and higher levels of aggression from corporate fucktards who will do literally ANYTHING for money, as one example. Maybe the whole point of religion was just to make this worid a more liveable place (as ironic as that seems).

Even in Christiantity and Judaism, it states that Abraham was justified before God due to his belief. It wasn't what he did or did not do, but that he followed his heart with what he knew to be true despite the many people around telling him he was crazy. It would have been wrong of him NOT to follow what he knew. Would he have been sent to hell for not following what he knew to be right? I don't know.

And as for the Christians who like to quote that line from the Bible that goes something like (paraphrasing) 'you will only get into heaven by confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord.'...what I am saying does not violate any of that. Once again, it does not state that you have to confess while on this earth (otherwise, how do mute people get into heaven?). The 'belief in your hearts' bit is less easily challenged, but the point is the Bible states that you must do both. Also, 'Jesus Christ' is just another (Christian) name for God. I'm sure in the pure language of the spirits, it sounds a bit different. I wouldn't be surprised to know when we get up there that, even if by some tenuous thread, all the ancient faiths were based upon the same God.

This at least sort of explains why there are no more wide-sweeping miracles any more -- I think it doesn't matter. If religion was created to keep people civilized, and at this point in time, society is continually teaching and reteaching itself, there's no need. We don't REQUIRE any great miracles from the sky to 'show people the way'. As useless as it seems sometimes, this world is already crowded with places of teaching and worship. There's no need for God to perform for us. We either believe or we do not, but in the end, it stands to reason that we will get a faithful recount of our lives.

I've also thought many times over why a just and loving God would ever allow the amount of suffering that is in this world. The only conclusion I can some to is that it really doesn't matter. I am convinced that when we get to the other side, we'll understand that our sufferings here were so miniscule in comparison to what awaits us. Not all suffering ends positively. A lot of it builds character in people, but a great deal of suffering ends in disaster. If God is as loving as I know he is, the only conclusion I can draw from all this is that from the other side, this world is so transient and fleeting. In essence -- it doesn't matter. That sounds kind of harsh, but I don't think it is at all. I just think God has a more 'eternal' perspective that we lack. Soon enough, I believe we'll all understand that the troubles of this place really didn't matter once they ended.

So...there's my less-than-comprehensive take on spirituality. Whatcha got to say?

Long post, but I worked my way through it.

My thoughts on this are that I've always believed that all people who worship a higher power, and are "good" according to their own faith have a shot at heaven. I believe that God appears to different people in different ways, and that in the truest sense Allah and the Christian God for example are perfectly the same and thus both will be granted passage into Paradise so long as they are judged good by their own beliefs and they accept God as creator, ruler, and savior.

The same thing I believe applies to the ancient polytheists and "heathens." They were worshiping creation and His devine plan, whether they chose to incorporate that into a single divine entity or not.

I also believe whole heartedly that if you are granted passage into heaven that it will be as your dogma dictates it to be. I believe that the ancient Norse warriors are sitting at their tables in Valhala feasting for eternity, and that the ancient Greeks are rolling in the Elisian(sp?) fields.

I believe that the only way to really condem onesself is to reject God, completely. Not simply not believing in him. I don't think God would fault you for simply being wrong. But I mean believing that He is all powerful and still rejecting any sort of obediance or acceptance of him.

That all being said, i am a Catholic. And I too have been turned off by the bible bashing conformist calvinist institution that is infesting the U.S. The biggest problem I have with them is that they constantly condem the Catholic Church, yet are so similar in their judgmental singlemindedness to The Church in the dark ages that it's almost hystarical if it wern't so sad.

In summation, I live by the "live and let live" or rather "worship and let worship" school of thought. People should strive to be decent, good, moral people regardless of where or how they worship.

He's God. He can be narcissistic if he wants. And I want to be like Him.

Is a narcissistic God really less likely to exist than any other brand of deity?

I assume you were referencing me. I'm not religious, but I do believe in God. One of the points of the bit that I wrote was that I believe you DON'T have to believe any one specific thing to be judged fairly. In fact, I was stating that it's only fair to judge someone by their own conscience. By that, it doesn;t matter what you believe, but rather "were you true to yourself". I just used a lot of supporting info from Christianity as it is all I really know.

+1

I also dislike "god" always being a "him" with "his" divine plan. Of course not as fascinating as the choice to believe in a narcissistic, authoritarian god.
Then again, some people seek their gods to do "something" in order for them to believe they exist. Which adds another layer of fascination.
I believe in god, provided it helps me win Mega Millions.

Humor aside. The original post is regarding tolerance in a way, and that is good.

interesting take on the subject

i've been of the mind that religion/spirituality is not necessarily a bad thing (having faith in something is a great thing)...but the organized religion isn't a good thing...the messages, i think, have been diluted and corrupted over time by people with axes to grind

Well, you know, it's not like you can just believe whatever you want. If that was the case, I'd be in my own little delusional paradise right now. I think we just believe what we believe due to factors that're entirely beyond our control.

If people do choose to be Christian, it's because it's already got so many followers and such an extensive history backing it up that it seems a great deal more plausible than anything you could just make up on the spot. I'm sure it also helps if current believers (who're no doubt encouraging you to take up the faith yourself) seem especially chipper and, perhaps, easy to relate to. Even if God is a narcissist, it's not like you'll ever have to deal with him (until you die, and even then you'll at least be on his side rather than the wrong side). Fellow Christians, however, are there your entire life. So are you gonna take the people who spend their weekends like you do, or are you gonna go crazy and pick the faith that makes you stop eating pork (or meat altogether)?

go crazy.

Think of it this way, think of life like buying a copy of Microsoft Word (not likely I know) and you have a few choices. You can just muddle ahead without referencing any literature and get by with finding some basic functions and getting about 1% usage out of the software.

or you can read up on what the software can do, maybe take a course, and improve vastly your appreciation of the Word. Now you're getting 30% out of the software.

Dedicate your life to Word and you'll approach a 100% knowledge of the software and reap all the benefits.

Now think of God as Bill Gates. Bill can keep all the stuff about Word secret and just cash in by selling you the software or he can release the information as to to just what it can do. It's not narcistic of Billy Boy to do that, it's done for your benefit.

Do you see?

You forgot the part where you go to Hell if you don't read Bill Gates' literature or read it and ultimately decide you'd rather do things a different way. Don't even think about opting for a different operating system altogether such as Hinduism or Linux either..

And of course, nobody really knows if Bill Gates exists until long after the information would've been most useful.

I think your issues are a little different to the ones expressed here or the one that my example was trying to address.

Quite typical of religious discussions to be hijacked by people with their own agenda / issues.

Roethke called God narcissistic because he makes entrance to Heaven conditional upon both believing in him and being a Christian who has accepted Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior. Your analogy failed to address the point, either willfully or inadvertantly, even though it was pretty much the only point she made with the statement you quoted. All you did was illustrate how the Gospel can help us on Earth (and it was an apt enough analogy, as far as that's concerned, though you could've just said what you thought instead) whereas she was solely concerned with the mechanics of the afterlife.

I don't have my own agenda as I participate in these discussions without any concrete viewpoint of my own, and you should know this by now.

But whatever. Feel free to go on thinking that the only reason I could ever have for sharing my questions and concerns about the religion I find myself most drawn to (and seeking answers) is some sort of idiotic desire to poke holes in your faith. Because when it comes to something as major as GOD, anyone who wants to apply critical thought to the subject instead because he can't accept it wholeheartedly on a whim is a fucking troll.

I put off reading the actual first post for a while (so long), but I just skimmed it a bit more.

What's the point of our time on Earth if something as large as the life of suffering several of us have to endure is rendered irrelevant upon entrance to the afterlife? Surely that would mean everything else we experience here is meaningless as well. I mean, how're our minor joys and triumphs going to compare to heavenly bliss?

The idea that everyone has an honest chance to accept or reject God upon death, though, is a nice one.

Do you believe in coincidences, or are all coincidences miracles? How does one tell the difference between a coincidence or a miracle?

And on a more personal note, what were your miracles and how do you know they came from the Christian God and not some other religion's, or perhaps even a heretofore unknown one.

The point you made had nothing to with my example or the point I was addressing. It has nothing to do with trolling but everything to do with segueing into a different area of discussion.

Have I said that the points you are raising don't value discussing?

I think that's the point. Regardless of how good or bad life is here, it must be so shallow and dull compared to eternal joy. Maybe the whole point of going through life is to have something bad to compare heaven to. Also, maybe we're allowed to fuck up here and not there. Maybe fucking up in heaven is more serious.

I respectfully disagree on the first point. Maybe Roethke will post here again and shed some light on how adequately you responded to her rhetorical question.

As for the second, I think your claims in the Christians group that I was simply there for some kind of rude Atheist agenda are tantamount to an accusation of trolling. I see this as merely being a continuation of that.

And yes, I do see your habit of dismissing all of my points as attempts to hijack a discussion for my own purposes as pretty clear attempts to remove them from active discussion.

Frankly, I don't see why enjoying heaven would require one to be miserable on Earth beforehand. If the point was to experience suffering so we could better enjoy bliss, then why do some people suffer more than others? If the suffering that a rich oil heir endures is enough to grant him an adequate appreciation of heaven, then how could dismembering a child by way of car accident possibly be justified? Surely the boy would be just as well off as the heir if he experienced the same hardships, among them hangovers and unsolicited visits from Nicole Richie. You could say, perhaps, that the child will enjoy heaven because he has suffered more, but that just reverses the question. Why should an oil heir's short life of privilege prevent him from being able to enjoy Heaven to the greatest possible extent?

.... or you could try posting within context and when you want to go off at your tangent you do that elsewhere or not try and turn someone else's post into the kickoff point for your own. My post to Roethke was quite tongue in cheek and light hearted, would you say the same of your tag on?

.... and as to your post about what you say I have claimed in the Christian Group, way to go at disrespecting that domain and misrepresenting what I said in it.

My theory's so much simpler.

Booze/Drugs + Hot Guys/Girls = God.

Oh yeah

+1

Um, I thought Clapton was God. No?

I'm glad I don't care about this stuff anymore.