Elia Kazan

dead.
awesome producer and writer, souless human being interested only in saving his own ass.

[Edited on Sep 28, 2003 by ava]

well, yes, but he was a true gift to the film and theater world

He was born in Constantinople. How fucking cool is that?

yeah, he ratted on others in Hollywood to save his own ass during th McCarthy trials.

And that is definitely NOT fucking cool. RIP, rat.

seriously, i'm so torn on how i feel about him. he produced two of my favrite movies of all time (east of eden and splendor in the grass), but he was such a dirty rat.....

Possibly, if you don't count the net loss to said world he caused.

hannibal lecter was a true gift to gastronomy. look how that turned out.

Seriously, though, this is exactly the kind of behaviour we have to think about with patriot 2 looming. I work in computer security and I have to worry about ending up on a list of known associates.

People for whom the greater good consists entirely of their own ass suck. They poison the well for the rest.

I hope people saw the recent PBS program, “Arthur Miller, Elia Kazan and the Blacklist: None Without Sin." I suggest you watch that before you pass judgement. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't. This was not a black-and-white, cut-and-dried situation. I wish him peaceful rest.

I hope that youre not suggesting that we're somehow less than informed for lack of seeing a piece of PBS edutainment. Miller may forgive him, Trumbo may wax philosphical, but at the end of the day, Kazan sold out his friends to save his own career. He did it deliberately, sanctimoniously and with complete foreknowlege. He was a brillaint filmaker, but a coward and frankly, a douchebag.

Yeah, I gotta agree with the douchebag remark. He did make some good movies, though.

He first got me interested in knife fighting, which has saved the world more than once. I hope that counts for something.

Kazan was complicit in witch hunting. He lacked honor, integrity, and any sense of civil disobedience in the face of wrongdoing.

Actually, its more than that. He admitted his membership but refused to name names and wasn't charged. The he discovered that he didn't like being a professional leper so he went back of his own accord and named people.

The thing I find somwhat ironic is that a few years ago when he received an honorary Oscar, half the room wouldn't stand up and give him an ovation, whereas this year the child raping pedophile Roman Polanski gets a best director award and the entire room immediatley jumps to their feet with elation.

I cannot for the life of me fathom what goes through some people's heads.

[Edited on Sep 29, 2003 by Beastie_Boy]

i was happier minutes ago when i was ignorant.

A rat by any other name..........

My take on Kazan : A man whose selfishness alone could inspire awe. He could probably have sold out his own mother to the goons if it meant he could get ahead. His wonderful artistic sense aside, he was still a rat.

My take on Polanski : A demented bastard who happens to be a really good director. But a sick as shit pervert nonetheless.

He sold out some Stalinists and overpaid hacks in order to continue to make great movies.

Certainly no more of a shite than George Orwell, who also named names. BTW, do you think informing on the Mob makes a person a piece of shit too?

PS -- Is 'unpopular' always the word you use for 'enthusiastic supporter of mass murder'? Also, do you not see the depth of irony of a Stalinist wrapping themselves in the mantle of artistic freedom?


[Edited on Oct 01, 2003 by plonk]

I've always wondered whether the character in Vonnegut's "Jailbird" was somewhat modelled on Kazan.

You seem to know quite a bit about this case. Can you tell us who he informed on and how they supported the atrocities of Stalin?

Thank you Senator McCarthy.

Unfortunately the "hacks" you named are people like Dalton Trumbo, the Strassbergs, Lilian Helman, John Garfield and Zero Mostel, their Stalinist credentials are a bit on the shaky side as were talking about 1934, not 1952 here. This is to say nothing or the lesser lights like Phoebe Brand who might not have had to wait forty years for critical acclaim if he hadn't crushed their careers.

Not to mention your patriotic pal was tossed out of the CPUSA. he didn't resign, or repudieate his association and contined associating with those filthy Reds right up until the day he got his first subpoena. This was mind you five years after he himself was named. It seems to me that if were tarring the filthy commies, for thier affiliations of decades prior, Mr Kazan gets the brush as well.

But hey, you know, I'm sure he won't mind, since he's no longer in danger of being persecuted in the fight against totalitarianism.

Code is funny( and spot on.)

Informing on the mob is usually done because someone got caught doing something illegal and is trying to get out of the consequences.

Informing on people excercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and affiliation is being a punk ass bitch.

The comairison to polanski brings up a point, though. He left the country and is still making movies. Was europe not making films in the 50's?

Certainly no more of a shite than George Orwell, who also named names.

I don't think your grasp of history is quite a firm as you claim. Orwell, embittered in his last days over the failure of Trotskyism to revive itself, wrote a bunch of poison pen letters denouncing those who he felt were complicit or complacent with Stalinisms totalitarianism.

Not remotely the same thing.


BTW, do you think informing on the Mob makes a person a piece of shit too?

Do you really think that the NY branch of the CPUSA in 1934 can be accused of remotely that for their "support" of things that hadn't happened yet? The Group Theater was full of Bolsheviks, Trotskyists, Stalinists, Anarcho Syndicalists and all manner of leftists, as was the CPUSA in 1934. There were schisms and purges monthly based on who was running the show and their relationship with Comintel, and equating them with drug runners whoremongers and assasins is a bit, well, pathetic.

PS -- Is 'unpopular' always the word you use for 'enthusiastic supporter of mass murder'?

In this instance actually I think the word youre looking for is "fiction". Assuming that these atrocities had a ctually happened in the period in question, which they hadn't, how exactly is one supposed to be an enthusiastic supporter of mass murders that were secret. Its not like Comintel were sending out cables saying "Executed 3000 dissidents this month, NY intellectuals rejoice!"

Also, do you not see the depth of irony of a Stalinist wrapping themselves in the mantle of artistic freedom?

Freedom of assocaition is not an artistic freedom, its a basic human right.