The Olsen Twins nazi counterparts. wtf?!

heresy200 said:

Ignoring them is ignorant. It allows for them to reach a state of empowerment.

I personaly think that the best way to address it is to have the entire community respond as a whole.

In Eugene OR we had a problem with neo nazis getting out of control. They attempted several times to fire bomb synagoges, they threw racist information on porches that spoke of killing jews/blacks/and mexicans, they went to public spaces where black/native american/mexican people were present and started fights, they broke the windows out of houses. It got really bad there for a while. And all the while that it was going on there were these older nazi fucks using legal outlets to push their hate speech using the laws of Free Speech. Really though what they were doing was creating a culture of fear. They were using young teenagers to commit hate crimes, then hiding behind the first amendment in order to protect themselves. By doing this they hoped to bring the minority community to it's knees. The patriarchs were untouchable while the teenagers that committed their crimes were getting "community service" violations since they were minors.

The Nazis said the same shit that many of the people on this board say when they support these peoples right to speak their mind. They said: "This is our freedom of speech and it is not our responsibility if someone somewhere decides to act on our words." They flaunted that they had the right to spew their hate speech, and that since they had no "direct" connection (as in they hadn't met with the criminal Nazi's in the last 24 hours) with the young nazis that they could not be held responsible.

Anyway, back to communities the response. Rather then "ignore" the hate speech, or treat it like some bullshit "freedom" that these people had, the community responded by throwing it right back in the racist fucks face. We used all the tactics they used, but we rersponded as a diverse community in support of itself. When the racists put up hate essays on all the telephone polls in the town, people responded by painting beautiful signs talking about peace, equality, and unity. When they threw stones through the windows of jewish temples with threats of violence, people of all faiths came together for the next jewish service at the temple to show defiance to the threat. Eventually by responding peacefully yet forcefully and without "respect: for their "rights" we showed them that their speech meant nothing, their actions meant nothing, and that they had no power over us. By RESPONDING we took away their ability to control US or "them" (however you want to look at it ((meaning if you consider minorities to be a "them" or an "us"))) with their hate speech and actions.

By simply ignoring it we would have empowered them. Doing this would have left those people who were directly feeling the brunt of the attacks (the people getting their ass kicked, their houses bombed, and their lives destrotyed) to deal with it on their own. Nothing gives these fucks more power then ignoring their actions, all this does is isolate the victims of their crimes so that they never come forward to speak about the abuse they sustained while living in a racist community

Thus bringing me to another point:

I feel that a lot of people on this board have never dealt directly with the Aryian Nation, or the Skin Head/Neo Nazi movement. A lot of people on this site utter a whole bunch of idealistic bullshit about how these people have a right to say what they please as long as they don't "hurt" anyone. I think their intentions are good, but that these good intentions pave the way to hell for a lot of minorities all across the nation. What most people don't realise is THESE MOVEMENTS FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEIR THREATS, THEIR JUST SMART ABOUT IT. If you can find a community where these fuckers have put down roots, you WILL find physical, mental, and psychological violence against minorities. The thing is though, the "patriarchs" or said movement never do any of the "direct action", thus protecting themselves against legal threat. Rather, they just sit back and preach while their children run out and kill, beat, rape, stomp, mame, and hurt every person that doesn't look like them., all the while using the "free speech" right as a justification for the words they use to insight violence.

So, go ahead and talk all you want about someones "right" to say something but please realize that by doing so you empower these people to convince others to commit acts of violence!, Say what you want about my intollerance, I know for a fact that I am not intollerant. Rather, I have seen enough churches destroyed, minorities beaten and one killed to say FUCK THAT kind of tollerance, enough is enough when it comes to these movements! This shit has NO PLACE in our society, it is neo fascism, it is terrorism, it is the destruction of individuals, families, communities lives, wellfare, peace, and happieness...

Sitting back and saying that some FUCK has a right to terrorize entire groups of people by insighting violence IS contributing to that violence. Whether you want to accept it or not, that IS what you are doing.

I think it is sad that in a country that's Constitution says "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness" a sub clause within the "amendments" to that constitution can somehow subvert that into meaning "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness unless of course your black, latino, asian, jewish, or gay and living in community with a large group of Neo Nazis."





[Edited on Oct 21, 2005 by heresy200]

[Edited on Oct 21, 2005 by heresy200]

Taureolt said:

..and here's an mp3 for you. Now excuse me while I go kill myself:
http://resistance.com/audio/victory.mp3

Genevieve21 said:
I think that its really bizare that its assumed that these girls are abused. If im not mistaken if someone is trying to abuse you they take away your self awareness and self respect. These girls are proud of who they are and rightfully so. How can one say that its narrowminded for them to feel that way? Wouldnt that be narrowminded on your part? Isnt odd that people who piss and moan the loudest about free speech are the first to take it away from you.

louys said:

This post was awesome and I think people in your town are to be commended.

imustbestopped said:

Why is it difficult for some people to post a coherant sentence?

scorp17yh said:

National Association of Colored People vs National Association of Caucasion People, United Negro College Fund vs United Not Colored College Fund, Check the history of the Irish in the early day of the United States ignoramous

Sknow said:
[The initial response is a good one that you brought up, but you're either for freedom of speech or against it (there is no middle ground). While I believe that the neo-Nazi movement is evil, I would not want to ban them from speaking. Why? Because it would set a dangerous precedent. Would you trust me as what is "good" or "bad" speech in this world? Could you trust anyone?

I do believe we need to look at the environment that these kids grow up in and do our best to improve it so that they don't have to fall back on these organizations. Until then, education and compassion are the only ways we can put a dent in this movement.

spamdog said:
On the topic of whether one should ignore racists or abridge their speech: That is a false, and very dangerous, dichotomy.

It is a very legitimate discussion as to whether we should tolerate intolerant speech, and it is very philosophically and ethically consistent to answer "No, we should not." Ultimately, however, I think silencing the speech is counterproductive.

The more one tries to silence racist speech, the more it allows racists to claim the mantle of a "poor oppressed group of people" which may serve to legitimate their fictional greivances. Also, once one goes down the path of silencing racist speech, you have given the government a lot of authority. Do you trust the present government to determine what is dangerous speech?

What Eugene did seems to me correct. You do not ignore racists--you confront them--but not by abridging their speech. For example, you could form a group called SARS (Suicidegirls Against Racist Songs, sorry was just watching Southpark), and then inform the wonder twins that for every dollar they make in selling their song or appearing at concerts, you will donate two dollars to the Antidefamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center. For every concert they perform, you will donate to the same causes. For every five thousand hits their site gets, you will offer to have someone go into highschools and give a twenty minute presentation on the Civil Rights Act or the like.

I once knew a Jewish woman (she'd be old enough to be a grandmother to most of you) who was at a college that George Lincoln Rockwell, head of the American Nazi Party, planned to speak. The Jewish community did not riot; they did not lobby for abridgments on speech. Instead, they filled the auditorium where Rockwell was speaking. When he filed in, they stood up, turned around, and Rockwell gave a long, racist diatribe to a crowd of silent, unmoving, backs. Ultimately, he left, and they proved their point--we will not ignore you, we will not be intimidated, and there is no one here buying the ideology that you peddle.

spamdog

Subrosa said:

When you're talking about freedom of speech, you're talking about freedom from GOVERNMENT interference from speech, not the interference of private citizens. So, with that in mind, what would you like the government to do? Throw these girls in jail for singing stupid songs? If not all of your crowing about how anti-hate should trump freedom of speech means exactly nothing.
.

Fatality said:

This other Nazi thread might explain some of his (and others') positions

[Edited on Oct 22, 2005 by Fatality]

heresy200 said:
My main concern is what you talked about in your first paragraph. That individuals will not engage and confront this speech within a community because they feel the people have a right to spread their dogma. That the "market place of ideas" will not be utilized, and will not be taken advantage of because people so often confuse the two!