TOPICS:
SEP 11, 2005 02:26 PM
SEP 11, 2005 02:48 PM
Schismatic_God said:
riskrewarded said:
Schismatic_God said:
Well siting the fact that the Guardian is your source, I am not completly inclined to belive what I read there. This is because of the fact that they are a UK based newspaper who mailed out letters to people in ohio trying to sway the outcome of the last presidential election. So there in they have shown that they are very anti Bush.
If some one doesnt like the guy I have no problem with that, but in the first place what buisness does a BRITISH news paper have trying to infulence the outcome of a Presidential election in the UNITED STATES?
That being said it is obvious that they woudnt want anything to work out for the guy while he is in office, and would most likely do everything in thier power to undermine what ever he does.
As far as hurricaine Katrina goes, I have developed a time line on my web site at > http://www.schismatic-god.com/Katrinatimeline.htm I have not updated it since the 5th but you can look through the sources there and see that what really caused this whole ordeal is the fact that the Mayor didnt follow the evacuation plan, and is ultimatly responsible.
It is my oppinion that between he and the governer fighting with each other. As well the mayor has some screws loose, he publically said that he felt that the CIA was going to take him out for making derogatory comments about Bush. I dont think that this guy has any reason running a major city anywhere, it is completly obvious to me that he is inedpt. As well the fact that he didnt get a mandatory evacuation order out untill 18 hours before the sotrm hit! That isnt enough time to evacuate a major us city like NOLA as well, the director of the national hurricaine center called the mayor the day prior and urged him to get people out of there because of the storm bearing down on them.
I would think that when the director of the national hurricaine center calls you personally, somthing he has only done once before, when you are the mayor of a major city and tells you that the big one is headed for you, dont you think at that point that it would be a good idea to start acting. As well with that 48 hours notice they could have taken measures to save that city. flooding is one thing, but in that time they could have shut off and drianed gas lines, shut down the power grid so as that fires didnt start, but no not a thing was done, and the disaster management plan was not utilised and this is why you have so much carnage and desturction in that city.
More so when it comes to the devastaion from the flooding, I would have to say that the responsibility there lies with the city governement as well. They have known for 20 years that this could be a reality. OR basically the majority of my life span. Thus if you are going to dish out blame on a presidential level for this you have to blame Presidents Regan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush II. Really though, the city of new orleans created the infastructure that allowed them to build the city there in that location, I feel as though they should have been ultimately responsible for making sure that it could handle this situaiton.
When it comes to the situation in Iraq, there is source after source after source trying to way lay the progress there. Both foreign and domestic. I view the worst part of the problems with the reconstruction in Iraq being that there are so many people here in the United States whom are rooting for us to fail there, doing everything that they can to stand in the way of the process that is required to do what is nessicary to get the job done IE. putting our troops on trial for shooting an enemy combatant and other such nonsene that has gone on over there.
I feel as though if every one would get on board and get it into thier heads that we as a country are commited to this course of action that we would be more effective in getting this process done. The reson for this is as I see it, Bush is in a pretty tough predicament right now, not only does he have to deal with the situation in Iraq, but he has to deal with working with the powers that be here who are trying to impede the process in any way that they can. Rebuilding Iraq for sure is not an easy job, It is not one that I would want to be responsible for. And quite frankly I would have it handled differently, but it isnt my decision to make. That decision lies in the officials that we elected into office, and not just President Bush, Our Senat and Congress as a whole.
I for one am so sick of watching the Democrats and the Republicans go back and forth over and over back biting and fighting with each other that it makes me sick (I am a registered independant) Everyone as far as I am concerned needs to work about getting along a bit more and making compramise to actually get things accomplished. Everyone has become so obsessed with pushing thier ajendas that the scope of taking care of the big issues as a whole has been left alone and not delt with.
What I mean here is this: The left and the right all have thier issues that they are pushing for the special intrest groups that support them, IE. Stem cell research, gay marrage, Prayer in schools, the words "Under god" and so on. I personally think that before we start tackleing these things we should take a good hard look at the things that really need to be payed attention to, such as the cumbleing interstate system, expecially in states such as Illinois and California where the State Governemnt has spent the money allocated to rebuild and expand the road structrure on other projects. As well there are public safety issues in the gulf coast like new orleans that need to be tended to.
Personally I think that taking care of these kind of things is just a little bit more important than worrying about weahter or not scientists are experimenting on a dead baby fetus, or weather or not we say "Under god" in the pledge of alegence.
I am of the opinion that the reson that these issues are not being tended to is the fact that politicans and I do mean all politicians cater to who ever is funding thier campaign chests. It isnt about what is best for america any more, washignton has become nothing more than a huge power stuggle to see to what speccial intrest groups get caterd to first, and which ones get left in the dust.
So Instead of sititng around blaming Preisident George W. Bush for all of our probolems, how about we all get off our asses, look at the facts and really take a good hard look at our governement as a whole and start voting in people that are going to take care of problems and not push thier personal bullshit ajendas? The probem is more than just a man, the problem is very wide spread. It is going to take wide spread movement to make things better.
Ok buddy Im trying to take what you are saying with an open mind.
So you are saying Mississippi ordered evacuations before the mayor of new orleans right?
Who ordered those evacuations?
Im thinking not the mayor of mississippi seeing that its a state.
So did all of the mayors get together and decide this?
This is why you think the mayor should be responsible?
If you think that the states should have been more coordinated dont you think the FEDERAL government would be more in a position to do this?
What sort of resources is it that you think a mayor has as his dispossal to evacuate 500,000 people? What is the point of having a federal government if it isnt handeling interstate disasters like this?
So lets say the mayor fucked up and he should have gotten all those people out and that ALL his fault somehow. How is he going to airlift food and water to people for relief? How is his police force going to restore order now that they are homeless and without supplys?
A mayor is not in a position to da any relief efforts in a town that is fully functioning let alone one that is 80% under water.
I think if you really consider it placing blame in a place that has no power to effect much change is pretty pointless.
Do you think the federal government did everything that could or should be done?
If you answer yes then I would say you are in the minority.
And to me it seems like a pretty callous and self serving minority.
Gladly, as per the 2000 edition of the southeast Louisiana evacuation plan on page 13, paragraph 5 states:
5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.
This was not done, however there were litterally hundreds of busses parked less than a mile from the super dome. It was the mayors responsibility to order these buses into action.
You can see them in this arial photo.
Notice that they are all flooded and useless now. These buses could have been used to evacuate people and get them the heck out of the the city, and thus completly prevented the situation at the superdome, or atleast lessend it by a land slide.
As well the reason that Mississippi did not have the devistation that NOLA did is that the Responsible parties did thier job and followed thier emergecny mangagement plans. They were on the ball and thus is why the devistation there is going to be nowhere near as bad as in NOLA.
I do think that the federal governement could have done more, however from the best understanding I can reach, the local government started fighting with FEMA and the director of FEMA was too inedpt to do his job and see to it that things were handled, it is he whom should have contacted the president and informed him that his itervention would be required. I think FEMA totally dropped the ball by not overiding the authority of the local and state gov there, however on the same note by the time they realised that this was going to be that kind of issue it was most likely too late do do anythign about it. And there for the feds probably did not step in because they did not want to assume responsibility for the mess that the Mayor and Governor really created. So really my oppinion that everything that was done was too little to late, and anything that the feds could have done woudl have been the same tune.
Allthough on another note, I think the president could have been in a better position to reckognise and deal with the problem if he were not stuck dealing with people like Cindy Shenan camped out at his ranch screaming jumping up and down, taking up his time figuring out how to deal with them.
I would have to say this is the case with allot of our government, that too much of it is so deeply entrenched in the politcal battles of today, that moving swiftly and effectively into doing anything is a complete and total imposibility!
I have failed to count the "hundreds" of busses in the photograph.
SEP 11, 2005 02:51 PM
Mythicus
Lawnside, NJ
May 2004
SEP 11, 2005 09:31 PM
1stXer said:
Schismatic_God said:
riskrewarded said:
Schismatic_God said:
Well siting the fact that the Guardian is your source, I am not completly inclined to belive what I read there. This is because of the fact that they are a UK based newspaper who mailed out letters to people in ohio trying to sway the outcome of the last presidential election. So there in they have shown that they are very anti Bush.
If some one doesnt like the guy I have no problem with that, but in the first place what buisness does a BRITISH news paper have trying to infulence the outcome of a Presidential election in the UNITED STATES?
That being said it is obvious that they woudnt want anything to work out for the guy while he is in office, and would most likely do everything in thier power to undermine what ever he does.
As far as hurricaine Katrina goes, I have developed a time line on my web site at > http://www.schismatic-god.com/Katrinatimeline.htm I have not updated it since the 5th but you can look through the sources there and see that what really caused this whole ordeal is the fact that the Mayor didnt follow the evacuation plan, and is ultimatly responsible.
It is my oppinion that between he and the governer fighting with each other. As well the mayor has some screws loose, he publically said that he felt that the CIA was going to take him out for making derogatory comments about Bush. I dont think that this guy has any reason running a major city anywhere, it is completly obvious to me that he is inedpt. As well the fact that he didnt get a mandatory evacuation order out untill 18 hours before the sotrm hit! That isnt enough time to evacuate a major us city like NOLA as well, the director of the national hurricaine center called the mayor the day prior and urged him to get people out of there because of the storm bearing down on them.
I would think that when the director of the national hurricaine center calls you personally, somthing he has only done once before, when you are the mayor of a major city and tells you that the big one is headed for you, dont you think at that point that it would be a good idea to start acting. As well with that 48 hours notice they could have taken measures to save that city. flooding is one thing, but in that time they could have shut off and drianed gas lines, shut down the power grid so as that fires didnt start, but no not a thing was done, and the disaster management plan was not utilised and this is why you have so much carnage and desturction in that city.
More so when it comes to the devastaion from the flooding, I would have to say that the responsibility there lies with the city governement as well. They have known for 20 years that this could be a reality. OR basically the majority of my life span. Thus if you are going to dish out blame on a presidential level for this you have to blame Presidents Regan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush II. Really though, the city of new orleans created the infastructure that allowed them to build the city there in that location, I feel as though they should have been ultimately responsible for making sure that it could handle this situaiton.
When it comes to the situation in Iraq, there is source after source after source trying to way lay the progress there. Both foreign and domestic. I view the worst part of the problems with the reconstruction in Iraq being that there are so many people here in the United States whom are rooting for us to fail there, doing everything that they can to stand in the way of the process that is required to do what is nessicary to get the job done IE. putting our troops on trial for shooting an enemy combatant and other such nonsene that has gone on over there.
I feel as though if every one would get on board and get it into thier heads that we as a country are commited to this course of action that we would be more effective in getting this process done. The reson for this is as I see it, Bush is in a pretty tough predicament right now, not only does he have to deal with the situation in Iraq, but he has to deal with working with the powers that be here who are trying to impede the process in any way that they can. Rebuilding Iraq for sure is not an easy job, It is not one that I would want to be responsible for. And quite frankly I would have it handled differently, but it isnt my decision to make. That decision lies in the officials that we elected into office, and not just President Bush, Our Senat and Congress as a whole.
I for one am so sick of watching the Democrats and the Republicans go back and forth over and over back biting and fighting with each other that it makes me sick (I am a registered independant) Everyone as far as I am concerned needs to work about getting along a bit more and making compramise to actually get things accomplished. Everyone has become so obsessed with pushing thier ajendas that the scope of taking care of the big issues as a whole has been left alone and not delt with.
What I mean here is this: The left and the right all have thier issues that they are pushing for the special intrest groups that support them, IE. Stem cell research, gay marrage, Prayer in schools, the words "Under god" and so on. I personally think that before we start tackleing these things we should take a good hard look at the things that really need to be payed attention to, such as the cumbleing interstate system, expecially in states such as Illinois and California where the State Governemnt has spent the money allocated to rebuild and expand the road structrure on other projects. As well there are public safety issues in the gulf coast like new orleans that need to be tended to.
Personally I think that taking care of these kind of things is just a little bit more important than worrying about weahter or not scientists are experimenting on a dead baby fetus, or weather or not we say "Under god" in the pledge of alegence.
I am of the opinion that the reson that these issues are not being tended to is the fact that politicans and I do mean all politicians cater to who ever is funding thier campaign chests. It isnt about what is best for america any more, washignton has become nothing more than a huge power stuggle to see to what speccial intrest groups get caterd to first, and which ones get left in the dust.
So Instead of sititng around blaming Preisident George W. Bush for all of our probolems, how about we all get off our asses, look at the facts and really take a good hard look at our governement as a whole and start voting in people that are going to take care of problems and not push thier personal bullshit ajendas? The probem is more than just a man, the problem is very wide spread. It is going to take wide spread movement to make things better.
Ok buddy Im trying to take what you are saying with an open mind.
So you are saying Mississippi ordered evacuations before the mayor of new orleans right?
Who ordered those evacuations?
Im thinking not the mayor of mississippi seeing that its a state.
So did all of the mayors get together and decide this?
This is why you think the mayor should be responsible?
If you think that the states should have been more coordinated dont you think the FEDERAL government would be more in a position to do this?
What sort of resources is it that you think a mayor has as his dispossal to evacuate 500,000 people? What is the point of having a federal government if it isnt handeling interstate disasters like this?
So lets say the mayor fucked up and he should have gotten all those people out and that ALL his fault somehow. How is he going to airlift food and water to people for relief? How is his police force going to restore order now that they are homeless and without supplys?
A mayor is not in a position to da any relief efforts in a town that is fully functioning let alone one that is 80% under water.
I think if you really consider it placing blame in a place that has no power to effect much change is pretty pointless.
Do you think the federal government did everything that could or should be done?
If you answer yes then I would say you are in the minority.
And to me it seems like a pretty callous and self serving minority.
Gladly, as per the 2000 edition of the southeast Louisiana evacuation plan on page 13, paragraph 5 states:
5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.
This was not done, however there were litterally hundreds of busses parked less than a mile from the super dome. It was the mayors responsibility to order these buses into action.
You can see them in this arial photo.
Notice that they are all flooded and useless now. These buses could have been used to evacuate people and get them the heck out of the the city, and thus completly prevented the situation at the superdome, or atleast lessend it by a land slide.
As well the reason that Mississippi did not have the devistation that NOLA did is that the Responsible parties did thier job and followed thier emergecny mangagement plans. They were on the ball and thus is why the devistation there is going to be nowhere near as bad as in NOLA.
I do think that the federal governement could have done more, however from the best understanding I can reach, the local government started fighting with FEMA and the director of FEMA was too inedpt to do his job and see to it that things were handled, it is he whom should have contacted the president and informed him that his itervention would be required. I think FEMA totally dropped the ball by not overiding the authority of the local and state gov there, however on the same note by the time they realised that this was going to be that kind of issue it was most likely too late do do anythign about it. And there for the feds probably did not step in because they did not want to assume responsibility for the mess that the Mayor and Governor really created. So really my oppinion that everything that was done was too little to late, and anything that the feds could have done woudl have been the same tune.
Allthough on another note, I think the president could have been in a better position to reckognise and deal with the problem if he were not stuck dealing with people like Cindy Shenan camped out at his ranch screaming jumping up and down, taking up his time figuring out how to deal with them.
I would have to say this is the case with allot of our government, that too much of it is so deeply entrenched in the politcal battles of today, that moving swiftly and effectively into doing anything is a complete and total imposibility!
I have failed to count the "hundreds" of busses in the photograph.
and you didn't have many drivers willing to stay in the city just so they could drive those hundreds of busses.
[Edited on Sep 12, 2005 by Mythony]
waldo
I'm lost
June 2004
SEP 11, 2005 01:59 PM