NEWS: Iraq Constitution May Erode Last Justification for War

In an Aug. 18 statement, Tony Perkins, head of the conservative Family Research Council, wrote on that group's Web site: "I have sent a letter to President Bush encouraging the Administration to redouble its efforts to ensure that the Iraq Constitution provides genuine religious freedom for all Iraqi citizens. An Iraqi Constitution that does not protect religious liberty will seriously undermine U.S. efforts in Iraq and the larger Middle East. The sons and daughters of Americans are not risking their lives to establish a theocratic government that denies its citizens the fundamental right of religious freedom."

Reached by phone on Thursday, Perkins said he wanted to make sure that the end result of the U.S. invasion of Iraq would not be the establishment of an Islamic state. And he questioned whether America's sacrifice would be worth it if it is.

"Let me speak as a veteran of the Marine Corps who has been supportive of the military action taken in Iraq. The idea has been to deliver the people from a [repressive] regime ... I think there are some who would question if we leave in place a structure that is less than sufficient in guaranteeing the freedom of the Iraqi people," Perkins said. "There are those who view that as less than successful."

[Nina] Shea [vice chairman of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom and an adviser to Bush] worried about the ambiguity of the language in draft versions of the constitution. If certain rights are not specifically spelled out, women and religious minorities could be discriminated against as they are in countries such as Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, where clerics play a role in interpreting law. Among her specific complaints is that the draft proposal called for the constitution to include religious experts on "sharia" (Islamic law).

"This also raises the specter of an Iran-style oversight body of theocrats," Shea wrote in a recent memo to the NSC and State and Defense departments. "All members of the Supreme Court must be required to have a civil law education. This is necessary in the context of today's Middle East. Even Pakistan, which has some sharia courts, has a civil Supreme Court, which has overturned some of the worst excesses of sharia, including the death sentences for blasphemy (80 blasphemy cases now pending in Pakistan)."

Sambaloco said:
Good thing we've been wasting billions of dollars on this....especially now that its gonna take at least 25 billion to rebuild New Orleans

Deux said:
Oh, so forcin... erm... "spreading" democracy is the latest excuse for the continued Mongolian clusterfuck that is the Iraq war? Whatever happened to those pesky WMD's? Or the cake uranium that Saddam was buying out of Africa? Or Saddam's ties to al Qeada?

Isn't it about time we collectively said, "enough is enough?" The only ties to terrorism in Iraq now are those that we inadvertantly created by forcing democracy and American ideals down the throats of those that never wanted them in the first place. With coalition casualties having climbed over 2,000 for a war propigated on a stack of lies, maybe it's time for some fresh ideas.

That said, yes, we've made a mess of Iraq. It's in complete fucking chaos right now, and practically no one is safe. Bush, et al. have made the bed, and we're going to have to sleep in it. But I can't accept the excuse of trying to pound the square peg of democracy into the round hole of an Islamic nation as a legitimate reason stay in Iraq any longer. Let's help train their troops, see their constitution signed, and get the fuck out of Dodge.

Deux said:
Oh, so forcin... erm... "spreading" democracy is the latest excuse for the continued Mongolian clusterfuck that is the Iraq war? Whatever happened to those pesky WMD's? Or the cake uranium that Saddam was buying out of Africa? Or Saddam's ties to al Qeada?

Isn't it about time we collectively said, "enough is enough?" The only ties to terrorism in Iraq now are those that we inadvertantly created by forcing democracy and American ideals down the throats of those that never wanted them in the first place. With coalition casualties having climbed over 2,000 for a war propigated on a stack of lies, maybe it's time for some fresh ideas.

That said, yes, we've made a mess of Iraq. It's in complete fucking chaos right now, and practically no one is safe. Bush, et al. have made the bed, and we're going to have to sleep in it. But I can't accept the excuse of trying to pound the square peg of democracy into the round hole of an Islamic nation as a legitimate reason stay in Iraq any longer. Let's help train their troops, see their constitution signed, and get the fuck out of Dodge.

bones_708 said:
Did anyone bother to read the thing? Guess what our constitution is based off of Christianity. So? In plain language it guaranties freedom. What will be the test is if it is followed. USSR had a great constitution, they just didn't care if they broke it so it didn't do much good.

bones_708 said:
Did anyone bother to read the thing? Guess what our constitution is based off of Christianity. So? In plain language it guaranties freedom. What will be the test is if it is followed. USSR had a great constitution, they just didn't care if they broke it so it didn't do much good.

bones_708 said:
Did anyone bother to read the thing? Guess what our constitution is based off of Christianity. So?

Keith said:

NO. IT. ISN'T.

And for another thing, yes I have read the draft constitution. I don't seem to remember any phrases in the U.S. constitution that said "No law may contradict Christian principles."

[Edited on Aug 29, 2005 by Keith]

EvanX said:

Uh, yea...not at all.

bones_708 said:
Did anyone bother to read the thing? Guess what our constitution is based off of Christianity. So? In plain language it guaranties freedom. What will be the test is if it is followed. USSR had a great constitution, they just didn't care if they broke it so it didn't do much good.

JasonDelane said:

Have you bothered to read ours? The first amendment, which specifies freedoms of the press, speech, petition, and assembly, and absolutely prohibits the establishment of religion by the US government, and maintains a seperation between church and state. Just because the majority of the signers were probably christians, doesn't mean they weren't very intelligent men.

Iraq's constitution is sound, and will be voted on by the people. I think there should be at least a 3/4 majority to ratify it, but I'm not running policy.

bones_708 said:
Did anyone bother to read the thing? Guess what our constitution is based off of Christianity.

1st -- Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:

(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.

(b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of democracy.

(c) No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms outlined in this constitution.

2nd -- This constitution guarantees the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people and the full religious rights for all individuals and the freedom of creed and religious practices

Article (5): The law is sovereign, the people are the source of authority and its legitimacy, which they exercise through direct, secret ballot and its constitutional institutions.

FIRST: Civil and political rights.

Article (14): Iraqis are equal before the law without discrimination because of sex, ethnicity, nationality, origin, color, religion, sect, belief, opinion or social or economic status.

Article (15): Every individual has the right to life and security and freedom and cannot be deprived of these rights or have them restricted except in accordance to the law and based on a ruling by the appropriate judicial body.

Article (16): Equal opportunity is a right guaranteed to all Iraqis, and the state shall take the necessary steps to achieve this.

Article (17):

1st -- Each person has the right to personal privacy as long as it does not violate the rights of others or general morality.

2nd -- The sanctity of the home is protected. They cannot be entered or searched or violated except by judicial decision and in accordance with the law.

1st -- The judiciary is independent, with no power above it other than the law.

2nd -- There is no crime and no punishment except by the text (of law). And there is no punishment except for an act that the law considers a crime at the time of its commission. No punishment can be enacted that is heavier than the punishment allowed at the time of the crime's commission.

3rd -- Trial by judiciary is a right protected and guaranteed to all.

4th -- The right to defense is holy and guaranteed in all stages of investigation and trial.

5th -- The accused is innocent until his guilt is proven in a just, legal court. The accused cannot be tried for the same accusation again after he has been freed unless new evidence appears.

6th -- Every individual has the right to be treated in a just manner in all judicial and administrative procedures.

7th -- Court sessions will be open unless the court decides to make them secret.

8th -- Punishment is for individuals.

9th -- Laws do not apply retroactively unless otherwise has been legislated, and this exception does not include laws of taxes and duties.

10th -- Punitive law shall not be applied retroactively unless it is best for the defenda11th -- The court shall appoint an attorney to defend defendants charged with a felony or a misdemeanor who don't have an attorney and it shall be at the state's expense.

12th -- (a) (Arbitrary) detention shall not be allowed.

(b) Arrest or imprisonment is not allowed in places other than those designated for that according to prison laws that are covered by health and social services and are under the control of the state.

13th -- Preliminary investigation papers shall be shown to the concerned judge no later than 24 hours from the time of the detention of the accused and cannot be extended except once and for same duration.

Article (20): Citizens, male and female, have the right to participate in public matters and enjoy political rights, including the right to vote and run as candidates.

Article (21):

1st -- An Iraqi shall not be handed over to foreign bodies and authorities.

2nd -- Political asylum to Iraq shall be regulated by law and the political refugee shall not be turned over to a foreign body or forcefully returned to the country from which he has fled.

3rd -- Political asylum shall not be granted to those accused of committing international or terror crimes or to anyone who has caused Iraq harm.

4th -- Violence and abuse in the family, school and society shall be forbidden.

1st -- The state guarantees social and health insurance, the basics for a free and honorable life for the individual and the family -- especially children and women -- and works to protect them from illiteracy, fear and poverty and provides them with housing and the means to rehabilitate and take care of them. This shall be regulated by law.

PART TWO:Freedoms

Article (35):

1st --

(a) The freedom and dignity of a person are protected.

(b) No one may be detained or investigated unless by judicial decision.

(c) All forms of torture, mental or physical, and inhuman treatment are forbidden. There is no recognition of any confession extracted by force or threats or torture, and the injured party may seek compensation for any physical or mental injury that is inflicted.

2nd -- The state is committed to protecting the individual from coercion in thought, religion or politics, and no one may be imprisoned on these bases.

3rd -- Forced labor, slavery and the commerce in slaves is forbidden, as is the trading in women or children or the sex trade.

Article (36): The state guarantees, as long as it does not violate public order and morality:1st -- the freedom of expressing opinion by all means.

2nd -- the freedom of press, publishing, media and distribution.

3rd -- freedom of assembly and peaceful protest will be organized by law.

Article (37):

1st -- Freedom to establish and belong to political organizations and parties is guaranteed, and it will be organized by law.

2nd -- No person can be forced to join or remain a member of a political party or organization.

Article (38): The freedom of communications and exchanges by post, telegraph, telephone and by electronic and other means is guaranteed. They will not be monitored or spied upon or revealed except for legal and security necessity in accordance with the law.

Article (39): Iraqis are free in their adherence to their personal status according to their own religion, sect, belief and choice, and that will be organized by law.

Article (40):

1st -- The followers of every religion and sect are free in:

(a) the practice of their religious rites, including the (Shiite) Husseiniya Rites.

(b) the administration of religious endowments and their affairs and their religious institutions, and this will be organized by law.

2nd -- The state guarantees freedom of worship and the protection of its places.

Article (41): Every individual has freedom of thought and conscience.

Article (42):

1st -- The Iraqi citizen has freedom of movement and travel and residence within Iraq and outside it.

2nd -- No Iraqi can be exiled or forced out or forbidden to return to his nation.

Article (43):

1st -- The state is keen to strengthen the role of civil society groups and to support, develop them and preserve their independence in accordance with peaceful means to realize legitimate goals. This shall be regulated by law.

2nd -- The state is keen to advance Iraqi tribes and clans and it cares about their affairs in accordance with religion, law and honorable human values and in a way that contributes to developing society and it forbids tribal customs that run contrary to human rights

PART THREE: THE JUDICIARY

Article (85): The judiciary is independent and will be represented by courts of different kinds and levels, and they will issue their rulings according to law.

Article (86): Judges are independent, with no authority over them in their rulings except the law. No authority can interfere in the judiciary or in the affairs of justice.

Article (87): The federal judiciary will include the Supreme Judiciary Council, the Supreme Federal Court, the Federal Cassation Court, the Prosecutor's Office, the Judiciary Inspection Department and other federal courts that are organized by law.

FIRST: The Supreme Judiciary Council

Article (88): The Supreme Judiciary Council will administer judicial affairs in accordance with the law.

Article (89): The Supreme Judiciary Council will exercise the following powers:

1st -- administering and supervising the federal judiciary system.

2nd -- nominating the head and members of the Supreme Federal Court and presenting their names to parliament for endorsement.

3rd -- nominating the head of the Federal Cassation Court, the chief prosecutor and the head of the Judiciary Inspection Department, and presenting them to parliament for approval.

4th -- proposing the annual budget for the federal judiciary system and presenting it to parliament for approval.

SECOND: The Supreme Federal Court

Article (90):
1st -- The Supreme Federal Court is an independent judicial body, financially and administratively, its work and its duties will be defined by law.

2nd -- The Supreme Federal Court will be made up of a number of judges and experts in Sharia (Islamic Law) and law, whose number and manner of selection will be defined by a law that should be passed by two-thirds of the parliament members.

Article (91): The Supreme Federal Court will have the following duties:

1st -- overseeing the constitutionality of federal laws before they are issued.

2nd -- overseeing the constitutionality of the laws and standing regulations.

3rd -- interpreting the text of the constitution.

4th -- ruling in cases that emerge from the implementation of federal laws.

5th -- ruling in disputes between the federal government and the governments of the regions and the provinces and local administrations.

6th -- ruling in disputes between the governments of the regions or provinces.

7th -- ruling in accusations against the president of the republic, the prime minister and the ministers.

8th -- endorsing the final results of parliamentary general elections.

Xanippi said:
I'm confused about this sharia. So why can't we just take out the parts of Islam that are misinterperted? Can't we keep the passages which provide solid structure and leave out bullshit interpertation?